Tripware, please, do not ruin this game as you did with RO2 at the beginning

[Celonius]

Hi. First of all, sorry if you don't understand something, english is not my native language.

I've been a Red Orchestra player since you developed the first Red Orchestra, when the saga was not as well known as today. I really enjoyed your game because I was tired of being Rambo in Call of Duty and Battlefield. I'm a big fan of belic games and the realism, and I know that COD or BF are not realist. Maybe those games have tons of kids playing, but the gamplay is not realistic, and the community is ****. In those games, you run in the battlefield like Rambo, you can be hitted by some shoots and still alive and still killing like Rambo. You can run, jump, and shooting in the same time, with crosshair. Well, I think than everybody who played CoD and BF knows what I mean.

Thats why I'm playing your games, the Red Orchestra/Rising Storm saga. Is realistic, and has nothing in common with CoD or BF.

When you released Red Orchestra 2, in 2010, at first I was very excited because I wanted more games like Red Orchestra 1 with better graphics and physics, but Do you remember guys how it was the release Red Orchestra 2? How it was RO2 at the beginning? Do you remember how they developed a game like Call of Duty with crosshair? I think that maybe they wanted to earn money like EA or Activision, and they though that introducing in their markets they will achieve that. The community of Red Orchestra was very dissapointed and everyone showed on the forums.

We were disappointed, because you have became a saga which differed from commercial games like COD or BF, in a clone of those games just to make money.

Luckily the community responded and sent you to hell (no offense). Then, you went back to the beginning, to Red Orchestra 1 gameplay, to the realistic gameplay, introducing realistic mode and even the classic mode (for the most radical who wanted the same experience as RO1). You kept the arcade mode (action mode), but nobody play this mode because people don't want to play an arcade game like CoD or BF with crosshair. Well, after you correct your error introducing realism and classic mode, the game was improved, the player base of Red Orchestra were back and everything was good and okay like today.

So I ask you, please, do not do the same strategy with Rising Storm 2. Do not do an arcade game. Do not do a game like COD or BF because you will fall into the same error, your loyal player base will leave, and the COD or BF players will play only until a new COD/BF with better graphics will be released. After that, your game will be a fail like RO2 did it at the beginning (luckly, you corrected that introducing realism and classic modes).

So, do not do odd mix, simply follow the path of good, simply follow the same way as you did with the first Red Orchestra, and the introduction of realism and classic modes in Red Orchestra 2 and Rising Storm. Your player base may not be as big as COD or BF, you may not should gain as much money as EA or Activision, but you have one of the best war games, unique, different, realistic, it is like playing the WWII. People don't play your games because graphics, people play your games because are unique. And I want the same with Rising Storm 2 in Vietnam. Keep that because it's what best you have and what makes you so great.

If you preserve the true saga, if you follow this way, I always will buy your games.

Sincerely, a fan of the Red saga.

 

[Omar The Insurgent]

From my standpoint, and from what I recall back in 2011, these are things TWI did wrong with RO2:

1. BOT FARMING - allowing people to grind levels and weapons with shooting bots.
2. Narrow map design which play out awfuly with 64 players
3. So many different modes: Action, Realism, Classic, Custom... this caters to no-one and just gets people confused. Just stick with one mode.
4. Made it look like that releasing SDK for modders before releasing the game would result in 3 mods on launch of RO2: In country (now is UE4 project), Iron Europe - 1914 - 1916 (never released) and Rising Storm (turned retail)

TWI did streamline RO2 development with community input and this is why today the game is VERY optimised and has so many good maps, mostly user-made and TWI polished. They kept their promise on the Campaign addition, for example, but failed to deliver more tanks and vehicles, which is somewhat reasonable as tank interior is yet to be surpassed by even a pure tank simulation game, yet alone some other FPS.

RS is now a far cry from what RO2 was on it's release and even 4 years later you will not find a commercial game with such a fluid and natural first person mechanics, whether it be operating a rifle or crawling with MG deployed, checking for ammo in your weapons or simply making your way trough battlefield - RS is the king.

With that said, RS2 is likely to build on the same engine with couple of novelty features, probably, but who cares about those when you've got a VIETNAM based game which we have not seen for a decade or more? Last one we had worth mentioning is probably Vietcong or it's sequel, or Project Reality mod's vietnam maps.

 

[Critical]

I loved original Red Orchestra (Mod & Standalone) map designs. We were offered a wide variety of different kind of map layouts, and the maps were open enough to allow us different strategies to be played, both on public servers and competitive play.

Red Orchestra 2's map designs I personally did not enjoy, the maps seemed awfully linear in comparison to RO:Ostfront and I did not find them as enjoyable.

I personally have high hopes for the third one, and hope they keep it true to the series, as it's one of the most unique and fun FPS games out there.

 

[BlackLabel]

biggest mistake was pissing off the CORE fanbase of ro1 and the Buggy Initial release.

 

[Rak]

Now that the "Red Orchestra" title is gone, I'm actually pretty happy. They can't disgrace the series and piss off the initial fanbase any further.

 

[RandomPerson78642]

Remember what happened last time one of these threads showed up?

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=1418719#post1418719


And honestly? I have to agree with him.

I've played RO1, I like it, I like the gameplay, but I don't want it shoehorned into every single game.

 

[BlackLabel]

the issue is a bit moe complex as you might think but eh....:IS2:

 

[Scarf Ace]

Remember what happened last time one of these threads showed up?


And honestly? I have to agree with him.

I've played RO1, I like it, I like the gameplay, but I don't want it shoehorned into every single game.

To be honest, the best thing Ramm can do for this game is not involve his arrogant, clueless arse one bit in the development of it.

RO2's problems aren't because it's not like RO1. They're because of awful design decisions that added terrible features that nobody asked for (many were subsequently patched out) at the cost of core polish and actually nice features.

Less terrible unlocks, more local VOIP please.

 

[i76]

biggest mistake was pissing off the CORE fanbase of ro1 and the Buggy Initial release.

Lets talk about bohemia interactive lol.... they are masters of that, but the 'core base' came around.

This is why using UE3 is a great idea.

 

[Cyper]

Lets talk about bohemia interactive lol.... they are masters of that, but the 'core base' came around.

This is why using UE3 is a great idea.

The difference is that Bohemia Interactive have kept the essence of their original game all the way from 2001 to this day. From the original game to ARMA III there is a distinct, logical connection between all games which is reflected in the gameplay style, mechanics, content and gameplay in general. Prior to ARMA III release many people were worried that the future-warfare would make the game more dumbed down and childish but it never happened because everything was tailor-made for an already predetermined formula.

Despite the fact that ARMA is ten times less accessible than RO2, is unoptimized, requires really strong PC, and often is released is a rather problematic state, people stick with it, and there is always huge modding projects going on for the game.

Back to RO2, it is simply a very diffrent experience for me to play, and indeed completely different features added. The command system was replaced with a simple command radial as seen in many console games. Spawn on squadleader was added while commanders rallypoints were removed. Attachable bayonete was removed, 'tactical view' was added, ability to close and open doors was removed, recon planes were added, ammo pouches was removed instead of overhauled, tank gameplay radically changed, no halftracks or bikes were even present in the game.

Focus on historical accuracy was overlooked only to introduce cool unlocked weapons such as the MkB. A range of other new HUD elements was added to make the game more accessible. Weapons were designed in such a way that there is more or less no learning curve to master them (regardless if one like the sway in RO1 or not). The sound was overhauled; the explosions, MG fires, sound of tanks, is completely different. Worst of all - the style of gameplay was change to be more fluid and fast-paced and the map design itself was obviously created to fit into this type of gameplay. Then a bunch off diffrent modes added to appeal to radically different audiences.

As swedish expression says, there was no read thread running through RO2 from the start to the end.

The difference is that Bohemia Interactive have kept the essence of their original game all the way from 2001 to this day. From the original game to ARMA III there is a distinct, logical connection between all games which is reflected in the gameplay style, mechanics, content and gameplay in general. Prior to ARMA III release many people were worried that the future-warfare would make the game more dumbed down and childish but it never happened because everything was tailor-made for an already predetermined formula.

Despite the fact that ARMA is ten times less accessible than RO2, is unoptimized, requires really strong PC, and often is released is a rather problematic state, people stick with it, and there is always huge modding projects going on for the game.

Back to RO2, it is simply a very diffrent experience for me to play, and indeed completely different features added. The command system was replaced with a simple command radial as seen in many console games. Spawn on squadleader was added while commanders rallypoints were removed. Attachable bayonete was removed, 'tactical view' was added, ability to close and open doors was removed, recon planes were added, ammo pouches was removed instead of overhauled, tank gameplay radically changed, no halftracks or bikes were even present in the game.

Focus on historical accuracy was overlooked only to introduce cool unlocked weapons such as the MkB. A range of other new HUD elements was added to make the game more accessible. Weapons were designed in such a way that there is more or less no learning curve to master them (regardless if one like the sway in RO1 or not). The sound was overhauled; the explosions, MG fires, sound of tanks, is completely different. Worst of all - the style of gameplay was change to be more fluid and fast-paced.

But not only was the game very different from the RO1 experience. The whole game lacks internal consistency. Or as the swedish expression says, RO2 did not have a 'red thread' consistently running through the game. This thread was rather taking winding roads, going back and forth, and ending up with a game that had to introduce a variety of very different modes, a variety of different and at times conflicting features, mechanics implemented into the game.

It's not about mimicing RO1. It's about asking what the essence of the first game was and then improve the game from that. Or to simply change the essence and create another form of game.

 

[Oldih]

Lets talk about bohemia interactive lol.... they are masters of that, but the 'core base' came around.

This is why using UE3 is a great idea.

To my knowledge, Arma has never had organised competitive scene and has thrived always for the unusual - at least when compared to many other games, given even the original OFP had still content made on regular basis few years ago - modding scene and general sandbox emergent gameplay potential of the engine which can arguably make up for the overly ambitious bugmountain bugging out in a buggy. RO2 launched at pretty rough state, arguably utterly broken if one looks at competitive side of things and it took quite a while before some issues were even touched upon, and by that time most people had given up already.

Nobody wants broken game at launch and without inside information it is hard to tell what goes behind the scenes, but for a game notoriously buggy BIS sure did a better job of patching cycle and general support with Arma 2 than TWI did with RO2. Since there is no real early patch note history available online for RO2 I am going bit by memory, but I only recall few relatively minor patches, only one that can be easily found is this http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=64242 and the next real move that I can trace is this: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=75146 followed by this http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=79061

Around the time GOTY version was announced (?) they released general apology and admission of mistakes related to RO2 launch and first major update to the game. Six+ months before (some) issues weighing down on the game's rocky launch even more hardly does anyone favours considering RO1's first patch came around 1

 

[Ermac]

Honestly, I don't see legitimate criticism, what I see is childish whining. And honestly, it sounds like you didn't play RO2, because it was NOTHING like COD. RO2 had it's problems no doubt, but I don't think it was because it was like COD.

 

[Turiddu]

OFP had a competitive scene at least during the first year,it was called The Combat Zone.It was fair and well organized but soon ended being a facade cause a couple of clans were not only abusing Creative 5.1 audio bug,but they were even removing stuff from wrps files such a bushes,forests and replacing textures.

After Resistance some stuff such as audio bug and removing files were fixed and I guess Euro Combat League was created,then again score whore egos had the upper hand and other crappy things happened.I've played in both and witnessed the mess being created by a select few,I moved quickly to a different server and started back from scratch,keeping my nose away from the competitive scene.Then someone pushed me into CTI scene and again it was fun at first especially on the Auria Pelikaista CTI server,played with SWEC,PLAF and some other random guys whom formed the n00b clan,left it cause TKC players were messing up everything with their cheatpacks and moved to various coop servers and remained there till they all died or moved to ArmA.From time to time I've dared to play on C&H server but there were three clans that were indeed those TKC users whom usually sucked balls outside their servers so everytime a C&H filled up and it was not NoRE,J4F and another one oddly enough someone turned his cheatpack on and crashed the server.Only one was safe from them cause owner range banned their IPs.

As for ArmA when I moved in people called every odd thing a cheat,sometimes it was impossible to play due butt hurts,then ofc a cheat infestation happened and for what I remember my old friends tried to set up or to play in the competitive scene but everything didn't last enough due a certain idgaf Life happening and everything else was a private club with only friends and serious people allowed plenty of armchair generals

 

[Flashburn]

I really liked C&H (well advance and secure) in Arma 2. Played that to death. Well until arrowhead. After everyone added in thermal everything it killed it for me. For good PVP arma 3 is largely a disaster. In can be none. But to much work. No one seems to be interested in just well balanced everything. They want level ups and stupidity that wrecks honest good PVP. And insta action. Not saying that is bad. But does not help a truly competitive PVP experience, unless everyone is like on the same page. Such is the gaming universe about now. Sad sauce.

 

[Srinidhalaya]

My biggest disappointments were..

-Map Size ; the maps didn't travel far enough. In RO:Ost, it would be objective after objective after objective, sometimes transitioning from one environment to the next. It felt very immersive. Battle's could last hours, not minutes.

-Spawn in Tanks ; This almost ruined the game for me. I loved being able to climb out of the tank, walk to the corner, peak around, and get a tactical report of the situation before rolling my tank out into the open.

-Unlocks and Ranked Servers ; Good job at ruining custom servers. No one will play an unranked server. Although this was addressed after quite some time.

-Bots ; In today technology, there is zero reason to have bots in multiplayer. All this does, keep players split into different servers, trying to fill up their own server. If there were no bots, it would force players to join populated servers, and consolidate the player base.

-Sound ; This actually ruined the game for me, and Rising Storm is just as guilty. In the "gameplay videos" we were actually treated with half *** explosions, as crap as they are, were still 10x better than what we got. 89/10 times I die from artillery, is because I don't have a clue if it's falling 2 meters, or 200 meters from me. Absolutely no fear of it what so ever.

-Detachable Bayonet ; Really? One of the best features I've enjoyed in a shooter, you remove from the sequel.

But I don't expect any of this to be addressed by this release, or any further release in the future. I've given up on game developers. Not a single one hasn't bait and switched with their Legacy title, and following sequel.

 

[oscar.nein]

My biggest disappointments were..

-Map Size ; the maps didn't travel far enough. In RO:Ost, it would be objective after objective after objective, sometimes transitioning from one environment to the next. It felt very immersive. Battle's could last hours, not minutes.

-Spawn in Tanks ; This almost ruined the game for me. I loved being able to climb out of the tank, walk to the corner, peak around, and get a tactical report of the situation before rolling my tank out into the open.

-Unlocks and Ranked Servers ; Good job at ruining custom servers. No one will play an unranked server. Although this was addressed after quite some time.

-Bots ; In today technology, there is zero reason to have bots in multiplayer. All this does, keep players split into different servers, trying to fill up their own server. If there were no bots, it would force players to join populated servers, and consolidate the player base.

-Sound ; This actually ruined the game for me, and Rising Storm is just as guilty. In the "gameplay videos" we were actually treated with half *** explosions, as crap as they are, were still 10x better than what we got. 89/10 times I die from artillery, is because I don't have a clue if it's falling 2 meters, or 200 meters from me. Absolutely no fear of it what so ever.

-Detachable Bayonet ; Really? One of the best features I've enjoyed in a shooter, you remove from the sequel.

But I don't expect any of this to be addressed by this release, or any further release in the future. I've given up on game developers. Not a single one hasn't bait and switched with their Legacy title, and following sequel.

I believe our panel at PAX West should have covered most of this.

There are a variety of map sizes, but the big ones are bigger than most of the ro2 levels.

Pilots spawn outside of the helicopter and are not bound to their helicopter. They can crash land and exit their vehicle.

Ranked and unranked is going away. There will just be "standard" and "custom" servers - only that will change are server rules. No affect on leveling or anything like that - we do not want to harm the modding community.

We're officially dropping bot support - may pick this back up in the future, but right now it would distract from getting the core multiplayer elements done.

Attachable/detachable bayonets are back.

 

[-Moody-]

We're officially dropping bot support - may pick this back up in the future, but right now it would distract from getting the core multiplayer elements done.

Hell, ****ing yeah! Thank you very much! Now I can play on servers with less than 60 people on it again without being bored as **** because there are bots walking around like mindless puppets! And even 10vs10 would be possible, hell yeah.

 

[Beskar Mando]

Priorities, I do agree bots are a pain in the ass. But they are needed on larger maps. Considering there's a game mode centering around small competitive play it makes sense as bots won't make much of a difference there. I don't know about you, but Id get bored pretty quick with playing 8v8s with no bots on say bridges.

 

[Mises]

We're officially dropping bot support - may pick this back up in the future, but right now it would distract from getting the core multiplayer elements done.

Glad to hear this good news! I don't like playing with bots, so i'm very happy now

Priorities, I do agree bots are a pain in the ***. But they are needed on larger maps. Considering there's a game mode centering around small competitive play it makes sense as bots won't make much of a difference there. I don't know about you, but Id get bored pretty quick with playing 8v8s with no bots on say bridges.

Bots are destroying immersion and they are running like headless chickens.

 

[Beskar Mando]

I wouldn't say they ruin immersion, (depends on the map, though I don't see it as ruining immersion, if you like immersion, check out IOM.) so much as it'd be boring as **** to only be able to fight 8 enemies on a map. It'd be horrible playing with 16 players on a map the size of say, Mamayev, it'd be worse with Winterwald, due to the low visibility. Honestly assaulting a position with 8 guys strewn about the front line is more immersion breaking than bots acting a bit off. I think it's an exaggeration that they run around "like headless chickens". The way the bots perform is entirely dependent on the map, not the execution of the code. If the LD's input all the variables needed for each coverlink bots probably would trump a fair bit of the player base in a fight. Though this requires a lot of man-hours to input each variable. It's just a bad system. People blame the bots when they should be blaming the map. Not that I'd give a **** as an LD for RO2, easily adds 50-100 hours doing an incredibly tedious task of inputting variables into each coverslot (which amounts to more than several thousand per map, with about a dozen variables for each slot, so it adds up quickly) over and over, again and again. This is all assuming you're being highly productive during this duration of work, which is hard to do (I've tried!).