• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Tracer off button...

A

American_Psycho

Guest
First of all this is a great game, 1 of 2 that are on my PC (IL2). I'm wondering if in the next patch Trip Wire could include an option to not fire MG tracer ammo. I know there is a mutator out there for it, but most good servers don't have it. The combat distances for most maps dictate that tracer ammo is not needed and merely give away the MGers position. What say you TW?
 
lol psycho as i tried to explain to people in game (not sure you were there at the time, but you started to conversation atleast before you left) Tracers are standard in the belt lines, if this is going to be implememted, you could have the soldier persoanlly set it to off, but when resuppling a gunner, the gunner should get tacers no matter what
 
Upvote 0
Machinegun belts have tracers. Period.

Some have various round counts (4 ball:1 tracer, 3 ball:1 AP:1 tracer, etc) but the standard loadout for machineguns are to have tracers.

Get over it.

The only thing that TW could/should do is implement the ability to look over the iron sights and walk the rounds to where you want, and increase the supression effect that rounds flying overhead. Especially the latter of the two.

As it is now, an effective machinegunner, and I mean an EFFECTIVE one, is more than capable of holding his own for an extended period of time, tracers letting the enemy know where he is or not. An effective machinegunner with a rifleman or two in support beside him is far more a letal combination than most pub teams are capable of handling without use of a sniper or arty.
 
Upvote 0
Tracers of machine guns resembles dots not comets or spermoids IRL period

Some machine gun belts did not have tracers at all period

Even you were issued one with tracers as a regular soldier you still can remove the tracers in your spare time period

If you still have doubts youtube mg42 and see for yourself how did their tracers look like or search these forums for this has been discussed many many times...

And keep your MG tips to yourself because this topic is not about that plus people dont even supply you when you are out of ammo so the those guys will cover you tactically?heh
 
Upvote 0
Some machine gun belts did not have tracers at all period

The only major case where tracers were NOT issued in a standard loadout during World War II is in aircraft. They were, still, for an extended period of time in the last 50 rounds or so to let the pilot know that they were low on ammo.

This method was quickly changed as it was found that it also let the enemy pilots know they were low on ammo.

If you expect people to buy this load of tripe, you'd better back it up with some reference material that states it. Otherwise, all you're doing is spouting pure speculation.

But of course, finding multiple reports of machine gunners not have tracers in their belt would be a rather arduous task.


Even you were issued one with tracers as a regular soldier you still can remove the tracers in your spare time period

For one, aside from the cloth machinegun belts used in the Browning and Hotchkiss machine guns, it is most certainly not just a matter of 'removing the tracers.' Machine gun belts, especially those used in the MG-34 and MG-42, were designed so that it required a tool to pull rounds out. Afterall, they were made from spring steel.

Once the rounds are out, you'd also then have to replace them, or else you'd be working the action after every four or five rounds to get past the sudden hole in the belt. Again, not an overly fun task, though not one that requires the use of a tool. But your hand would get very sore, very quickly.

Not to mention the reprocussions from your superiors when they found out what you did.

Not that it would be an issue very often, as machine gunners kinda, y'know, LIKED tracers in their machine guns.


If you still have doubts youtube mg42 and see for yourself how did their tracers look like or search these forums for this has been discussed many many times...

Ummm... since when was this topic about how the tracers look? I think it's a well known fact by now that the tracers are too big, too bright (especially during daytime maps), too long, etc.

However, this topic has nothing to do with the look of the tracers. It does have to do with removing tracers from the game. Which is a horribly, horribly historically inaccurate idea.


And keep your MG tips to yourself because this topic is not about that

Says the person who was trying to make it into a topic about the look of the tracers.


plus people dont even supply you when you are out of ammo

Never had that problem myself. Actually, I normally have an issue with people trying to resupply me, even when I'm already fully loaded.


so the those guys will cover you tactically?heh

Hear that? That would be the English language crying.

Either way, yes, those would be the same guys that will support you. Ever try asking them? Y'know, that silly little thing called a 'co-ordinated effort'?

Despite what many of you so-called 'veteran' players think, such a thing is not just some urban legend. It is, indeed, possible to get multiple people to act together as a team. Yes, even in pubs. I know, I know. I'm sure you don't believe me. But then again, there's also that minor matter of me not caring if you do or not.

Alas.
 
Upvote 0
For one, aside from the cloth machinegun belts used in the Browning and Hotchkiss machine guns, it is most certainly not just a matter of 'removing the tracers.' Machine gun belts, especially those used in the MG-34 and MG-42, were designed so that it required a tool to pull rounds out. Afterall, they were made from spring steel.

Once the rounds are out, you'd also then have to replace them, or else you'd be working the action after every four or five rounds to get past the sudden hole in the belt. Again, not an overly fun task, though not one that requires the use of a tool. But your hand would get very sore, very quickly.

Not to mention the reprocussions from your superiors when they found out what you did.

Not that it would be an issue very often, as machine gunners kinda, y'know, LIKED tracers in their machine guns.

Alas.

Load of nonsense.
German soldiers also fired without tracers. As soon as tracers are not working to your advantage you would remove them and that is exactly what happened. I'm sure I gave an example of such an occasion in a discussion earlier this year.

Huib
 
Upvote 0
Load of nonsense.
German soldiers also fired without tracers. As soon as tracers are not working to your advantage you would remove them and that is exactly what happened. I'm sure I gave an example of such an occasion in a discussion earlier this year.

Huib


I always love how people ignore that whole little thing called, 'proving it.'

And no, a handful of instances are not 'proving' that anything was common enough to warrant being in the game.


On your same line of thinking...

I have a recorded instance of a single SS trooper finding himself caught behind enemy lines while manning a stationary AA gun who survived for two weeks, and, during that time, managed to knock out a dozen Russian tanks and kill over 200 Russian foot soldiers.

I therefore submit that we introduce a new class into the game.

The UBER-ALLEZ-SS-TRUPPE!

After all, I have recorded facts that it happened.

Maybe only once, but it did happen, and therefore should be in the game.
 
Upvote 0
The only WWII army that never used tracers was the Japanese.

The German's made use of tracers, and you can find several references to that at the Lone Sentry webiste. The two that spring to mind are
  • In training, the US Army was to start firing live rounds during night fighting exercises to get the troops used to tracer fire, as they were finding it un-nerving in combat.
  • It was reported in Africa that when night fighting, german tank crews would fire the co-ax MG at anything that looked like it could be a tank or AT-gun. If the got a ricochet, it would be followed up with the main gun.
Can anyone point to documentation showing that belts without tracers were used, or that troops would create their own?
 
Upvote 0
Not that it would be an issue very often, as machine gunners kinda, y'know, LIKED tracers in their machine guns.
Now why is that? Because they gave the position away easily, or because they helped in aiming?
Now compare that to the situation we have in RO. Is there a reason to like tracers in RO as a MGer?

However, this topic has nothing to do with the look of the tracers. It does have to do with removing tracers from the game. Which is a horribly, horribly historically inaccurate idea.
Is it historical accurate right now?
What would result in a more historical accurate "gameplay" tracers as we have them right now, or no tracers at all?
 
Upvote 0
At least the magazines on DP were loaded manually by the crew, and that means the decision whether or not to load tracers was entirely up to them. German belts are another thing, I really don't know if they were disintegrating and loaded at factory and delivered as such to front line troops (as is the case with many western MGs) or non-disintegrating and reused (like with many eastern MGs).

Any case, I wouldn't remove tracers from the game since clearly they were widely used. But I'd add another view for supported MG that would allow better view and possibility to actually correct fire by observing the tracers. Currently the sights are not adjustable and the weapon effectively blocks the view so there's no way of knowing if you are aiming right at longer distances.
 
Upvote 0
I always love how people ignore that whole little thing called, 'proving it.'

And no, a handful of instances are not 'proving' that anything was common enough to warrant being in the game.


On your same line of thinking...

I have a recorded instance of a single SS trooper finding himself caught behind enemy lines while manning a stationary AA gun who survived for two weeks, and, during that time, managed to knock out a dozen Russian tanks and kill over 200 Russian foot soldiers.

I therefore submit that we introduce a new class into the game.

The UBER-ALLEZ-SS-TRUPPE!

After all, I have recorded facts that it happened.
Maybe only once, but it did happen, and therefore should be in the game.

Talking of proving one statements: Can you even prove what you claim about the use of tracers in machineguns - I mean unless you are 80 years plus you have no first hand experience and thus all you say is second hand information/hear say at best? The belts for the MG34/42 is easy to empty and reload and do not require tools to empty but will give you a sore thump after re-loading hundreds of rounds:) I am sure it is pretty safe to say that the factory loaded belts which came in the 250 round boxes were loaded with tracers but belts loaded/reloaded at the front can not be said with any kind of certainty to have been loaded with tracers as that would have depended on several factors like availability of tracer rounds as well as the machinegunners preference - contrary to what you say the germans soldiers did not get punished for not using tracers as every german soldier was expected to show personal initiative in order to maximize combat effectivenes and if not using tracers meant more dead russians it would be expected that the machinegunners use that to their advantage. As for the Sovjet side I don't know how they operated so you could be right there??

Taking WW2 field manuals, german ones I assume?, and using them for reference, or proof, as to how machinegunners always acted in the field is not the same as how it actually did - first of all field manuals are guidelines which sometimes is inadequate and therefore impovisation and personal initiative from the units at the front is required.
Having vast personal experience with the MG3 I can say that tracer-ammo is not worth much during daytime as bulletsplash is a better and more acurate way of determining where the shots go - only at dusk and at night time is the tracer of valuable use and personally I would never use tracers in a daytime firefight as the negative properties of the tracers far outweighs the beneficial ones.
 
Upvote 0
Have also found at the Lone Sentry website that in '43

"German machine-gun ammunition is packed in cases, and is not supplied in ready-belted farm. The German nondisintegrating metallic-link belts are non-expendable, being used over and over. The cartridges are belted by the unit to which they are issued. Sometimes belted ammunition is placed in canvas bags, which are used to carry small-arms ammunition for machine guns mounted on tanks."

For those who are unaware, the Lone Sentry website contains a large collection of WWII US intelligence reports. So these documents state what the US military believed and was reporting to itself and it's allies at the time.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0