The new spawn on squad leader function

[Nezzer]

So, Yoshiro said that now spawn on SL is a server option. Well, I have to say I really like that. One of the main reasons I prefer classic over realism is because it has no spawn on SL, and I hope to see many realism servers turning it off. But a server that turns it off becomes a custom server or it remains a realism server?

The main point of this thread, though, is that, after this new version of the spawn on SL function was implemented, mappers cannot choose how they want that function to work in their maps anymore. They can't set the spawnpoints for the SL or disable the function completely anymore if they think the map wouldn't work well with it.

It really sucks for those that want to make a map with spawns pretty far from the objectives, forcing the players to play more carefully, unless they want to take a long walk. Ogledow was like this and I loved it. I wonder how it would work when transport vehicles come out. The vehicles might lose most of their usefulness if players can spawn 10m away from an objective that is 500m away from their spawn.

Isn't there a way to make spawn on SL a server option without taking the choice from the mapper to make it as he likes on his map?

 

[Proud_God]

I agree that a mapper should be able to disallow spawn on SL completely for his map.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

So, Yoshiro said that now spawn on SL is a server option. Well, I have to say I really like that.

I looked for that choice in WebAdmin.... I could not find it.

 

[Nezzer]

I looked for that choice in WebAdmin.... I could not find it.

Well, thats what he said here:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1114779&postcount=644

 

[Floyd]

I looked for that choice in WebAdmin.... I could not find it.

Settings>Gameplay>Clanmatch>Spawn on Squad Leader (enabled/disabled radio button). Its on by default in Realism and off by default in Classic. My assumption is that it requires a "Custom" server.....

 

[ro2player]

The vehicles might lose most of their usefulness if players can spawn 10m away from an objective that is 500m away from their spawn.

So, why not installing respawn point inside vehicles ?

 

[Mike_Nomad]

Settings>Gameplay>Clanmatch>Spawn on Squad Leader (enabled/disabled radio button). Its on by default in Realism and off by default in Classic. My assumption is that it requires a "Custom" server.....

Thanx Floyd I appreciate your assistance.

 

[Mekhazzio]

A game feature shouldn't vanish just because a mapper doesn't understand how to implement it well. The reliance on manual placement of covernodes is bad enough. If a server wants it on, it should be on.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

A game feature shouldn't vanish just because a mapper doesn't understand how to implement it well. The reliance on manual placement of covernodes is bad enough. If a server wants it on, it should be on.

+1 Agreed.

 

[Stifmeister]

Its on by default in Realism and off by default in Classic.

Why is it on in realism? Is it realistic that SL gives birth on the battlefield? The default should be OFF all the time, unless it's action mode.

 

[Piscator]

I agree with OP.
What mainly puts me off Realism is 2 things

1. Spawn on SL
2. Enemy weapon loadout

Point 2 is already a server option as far as I know but no server seems to have that turned off. Spawn on SL is just pathetic and it leads to unnecessary chaos and confusion in most cases. Take these 2 things away from realism mode (I guess it becomes a custom server then) and I might just come around and become friends with realism mode.
Any servers out there offering that?

I know I keep bashing realism mode a lot but these 2 points make it an absolute no-go for me. The running speed is too fast as well but in Classic I must confess it might be a bit too slow or at least a bit too little stamina. Like someone posted these 2 modes should probably be one and compromise on the issues we discuss here and we can all play together and hug each other.
You can do that with sprint speed but the 2 points above there seems to be no compromise.

Bottom line: I am all for switching spawn on SL OFF!

 

[Six_Ten]

A game feature shouldn't vanish just because a mapper doesn't understand how to implement it well. The reliance on manual placement of covernodes is bad enough. If a server wants it on, it should be on.

You really think it was off in Ogledow because I don't know how to implement it?

I think it is a good thing that its now coded so a map that allows it doesn't have to be littered with playerstarts. Map makers must have the option to remove it. Give us a checkbox in WorldInfo please.

 

[Nezzer]

A game feature shouldn't vanish just because a mapper doesn't understand how to implement it well. The reliance on manual placement of covernodes is bad enough. If a server wants it on, it should be on.

Yeah, because giving freedom to mappers is a very bad thing. Who the hell wants to walk more than 100m to get to an objective? And of course, there's no reason to dislike this function other than not understanding how to implement it well.

 

[lawless]

Not trying to troll here or anything, but what is wrong with the spawn on SL functionality? I used it for the first time a week ago and it was pretty fun getting into the action right away (if you have a decent squad leader who is playing smart). So, what is the gripe with it? thanks

 

[Genocider]

The main issue with it that I have, is that it disrupts the flow of battle. The fact that it's up to the server and not the mapper, means that things that could easily influence the way a map is played, isn't up to the creator. It limits actually limits servers and mappers in a very bad way. Instead of this being an option for all types of maps created by many different mappers, it's a server side option meaning that either all maps have this disabled, or all have it enabled. Rather then certain maps having it disabled, or enabled, and if the mapper created their map with a certain play-style in mind which isn't accustomed to by the server, it's not going to play the way it was originally intended.

Think of it this way, the mapper balances the re spawn points around an objective so the defenders have to run a good way to get back to it, giving the attackers some breathing room as it's planned to be a very hard objective. The map is tested, and balanced to fit the way the mapper enjoys playing it, and all bugs squashed, all optimizations made, no further improvements can be made... All of this work can easily be ruined due to small things such as defenders being able to spawn on their SL, right inside the objective, negating run back to the objective from a far off spawn which was the only thing the mapper intended to allow the attackers to have a chance at capping.

Now that was an extreme example, but it's to give you an example of how such a small option really limits the capabilities of mappers, and the game believe it or not. Another similar issue would be spawning with enemy weapons which was mentioned earlier as another server side option... I believe this should be up to the mapper, and of course disabled by default for both Realism and Classic. What this allows the mapper to do, is give the enemy access to certain weapons, not through a contrived leveling system which just gives huge bonuses to people with higher play time, but through what they believe was authentic to the map during the battle fought, and through a way that everyone gets these weapons, not just the people with enemy load-outs. Basically, mappers can say, allow the german assault troopers to have access to PPSH's, while everyone else is stuck with standard gear. The enemy loadouts option, as far as I'm aware, would simply let only the high enough leveled users, get enemy weapons. While this other option present in Ostfront, allows the mapper to balance his map however he'd like.

Hope this all makes sense. :IS2:

 

[Proud_God]

Not trying to troll here or anything, but what is wrong with the spawn on SL functionality? I used it for the first time a week ago and it was pretty fun getting into the action right away (if you have a decent squad leader who is playing smart). So, what is the gripe with it? thanks

It's another part of the almighty 'we must make this game more streamlined/mainstream/instant action to attract a bigger crowd! Realism, immersion and fear of death be damned!' train of thought that krept into the desing phase of RO2.

 

[Nezzer]

Not trying to troll here or anything, but what is wrong with the spawn on SL functionality? I used it for the first time a week ago and it was pretty fun getting into the action right away (if you have a decent squad leader who is playing smart). So, what is the gripe with it? thanks

Genocider said it all. Large open maps lose all their fun with that feature when you can spawn just about anywhere in the map. Spawn on SL might work on tight small maps like most stock maps of RO2, but on larger rural maps, it would never work if the mapper can't choose how he wants it to work in his map. Just try to imagine Berezina with the spawn on SL functionality.

 

[Sotrasamen]

Spawn on SQ is extremely powerful if used "right" by the team, maybe too powerful.
(but both team have it...).

I see this feature as huge problem with making a map work well for both classic and realism.

But the argument about making a team run/walk far. Doesnt sound like a fun map, sounds more like a paradise for those who like defending on uneven maps.... "look at my kills!"

 

[Extension7]

I've honestly never noticed it being a bad thing. It helps me stay near my friends whom I play on TS. So we don't have 3 people standing around in spawn waiting for another to spawn so we can all move out together.

Yeah, mappers should be able to disable it in the UDK, it'd be helpful to me if I could do that as certain map makers actually want death to be a punishment.

A simple "Spawn on SL" checkbox in worldinfo would do, as Six_Ten stated.

 

[Nezzer]

But the argument about making a team run/walk far. Doesnt sound like a fun map, sounds more like a paradise for those who like defending on uneven maps.... "look at my kills!"

You have never played Darkest Hour or ArmA2, right? Most large and open maps of RO1 and its mods I know work pretty well. And like Extremity said, some mappers want to give people some more punishment for dying.