Spade

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shadowmoses

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2006
688
235
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shoveler.jpg
 

shadowmoses

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2006
688
235
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SgtH3nry3 said:
So what if a Heer-soldier lost his gear? You know that there was alot of looting in Stalingrad...
Especially by your own comrades!
If you lost ur gear then you ur dead...a soldiers weapon is his life.
 

Eater1

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 22, 2006
202
0
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Damn... this thread has really degenerated. You know, bayonet drills weren't held for nothing. Just because you all read in All Quiet on the Western Front about how German soldiers in World War I used spades (I won't even comment on that *other* piece of literature some people have referred to, because unlike the afore mentioned novel, that gentleman's works are NOT historically accurate) doesn't mean that it was the primary means for close-quarters combat in the German army. If it was, German soldiers would be issued spades to attach to the ends of their guns instead of knives.
 

Hans_klempner

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 8, 2006
272
66
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Eater1 said:
Damn... this thread has really degenerated. You know, bayonet drills weren't held for nothing. Just because you all read in All Quiet on the Western Front about how German soldiers in World War I used spades (I won't even comment on that *other* piece of literature some people have referred to, because unlike the afore mentioned novel, that gentleman's works are NOT historically accurate) doesn't mean that it was the primary means for close-quarters combat in the German army. If it was, German soldiers would be issued spades to attach to the ends of their guns instead of knives.

Well I guess if you lose your gun (shot outof hand) you gonna just attach the bayonet on a piece of tree branch you just broke off and use it as a spear, instead of using you nice and heavy spade.

Also what are you gonna use if you have a PPSH and (lose it)? You got no bayonet, but you got a darned shovel/spade.
PLZ at least just add the option of using one, if ppl dont like it DONT USE IT!
But we need this as a weapon of last resort.
 

KrazyKraut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
1,848
69
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Beer capital of the world
Sorry to rain on your "let's teach this DOD kiddie a lesson"-parade, but...

He is completely right!

Even in todays German Bundeswehr every subscript is told that when he's in the Alarmstellung (the defense nest of the camp) he always has the Klappspaten (spade) readily next to him. Bayonets are unsuitable for trench warfare and combat knives not only were rare but also require a lot more skill to use than a spade which is simply swung like an axe until there's nothing left of you opponent. My grandfather told me how they used to sharpen one side of the spades blade for this exact purpose.

Next time before you jump on someone with the realism-club better check yourself.
 

SOAD

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 10, 2006
377
29
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u guys are hilarious, someone says something perfectly valid, that the german soldiers used shovel as a close quarter weapon, and u flame him, just because another unrealisitic game has spades in (DOD).


OMG we cant have TANKS IN GAME because BATTLEFIELD 1942 HAS TANKS IN AND BF1942 ISNT A REALSTIC GAME... WAAA WAAA
 

SgtH3nry3

FNG / Fresh Meat
KrazyKraut said:
Sorry to rain on your "let's teach this DOD kiddie a lesson"-parade, but...

He is completely right!

Even in todays German Bundeswehr every subscript is told that when he's in the Alarmstellung (the defense nest of the camp) he always has the Klappspaten (spade) readily next to him. Bayonets are unsuitable for trench warfare and combat knives not only were rare but also require a lot more skill to use than a spade which is simply swung like an axe until there's nothing left of you opponent. My grandfather told me how they used to sharpen one side of the spades blade for this exact purpose.

Next time before you jump on someone with the realism-club better check yourself.
It's not about realism. It's about the realism-fun barrier... ;)
 

The_Partisan

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 13, 2006
27
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But it isnt harming the fun barrier. First of all what is a guy amred without a rifle supposed to do? He doesnt get a ncie bayonet. Plus it'd be awesome to have as a historical feature since both Germans and Russians used and loved it. In fact the Russian Spetsnaz became legendary with thier skill with the combat spade, one of the tests in Spetsnaz was to fend off a pair of mad pitbulls armed with nothing but a combat spade. And the use of it by Germans has already been proven.

Please give us our spades.
 

shadowmoses

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2006
688
235
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SgtH3nry3 said:
It's not about realism. It's about the realism-fun barrier... ;)
No i try to leave out the word fun...this is not a fun game...its enjoyable...
Meaning its not always gunna be fair...not always gunna let you win...not always gunna be true to real life...
but dammit! its sure is enjoyable...
And on a side note...i do believe that realism come first...just MHO
 

Reznor

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 18, 2006
449
0
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Darmstadt, Germany
Even if spades as CQC weapons are realistic - I have no doubt in that - I wouldnt implent them in red orchestra.
Why? Because they won't be used realistic, people will charge with a spade to kill people with it, or change from their normal weapon to the spade in the middle of a fight.
And a realistic way of spade-fighting is hard to implent: DoD-whacking was easy to use in gameplay terms, but was totally unrealistic. A slower attacking to simulate the weight of a spade wouldnt have that many ingame advantages compared to a attached bayonet.
Like that its not really worth implenting, maybe when the devs got some spare time to use :p
 

Rrralphster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 4, 2006
1,411
106
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Nederland
Looking at this picture and seeing rather optimistic Germans makes me think this is taken during Barbarossa when everything looked bright for the Germans.
They didn't get into that many man-to-man fights which required spades as weapons because they fought at a divisional level and not in small units like they did in the later days during the battle for Stalingrad.
aom.jpg


The battle for Stalingrad forced the Germans to fight differently for the first time during the war. From the second attack on Stalingrad tanks had a hard time manouvering through the streets and were easy targets because the Russian infantry could get very close undetected. The Germans had a hard time addapting to man-to-man fights because they were not used to it.
Normally they fought "Kesselschlachts". Luftwaffe first, then tanks surrounded the enemy followed by infantry who finished the job. Lack of manouvering space eliminated grandscale tank surroundings so the armour was used as infantry support.
The Russians addapted the quickest because they were isolated from the beginning and for the first time they were allowed freedom in their operations. They relied on fighting in smaller units close to the Germans lines to stop the Lufwaffe from giving close support.

Someone said something about the Germans having enough weapons. Well not after the 3rd attack at Stalingrad. The Russians surrounded them and cut off their supply lines. The Lufwaffe (H.G