"Soft Lock" and "Hard Lock" server options for Tanks

[Hypno Toad]

Having recognized a potential flaw in the "Tank Locking" ability for tank commanders, I figured I should just make a suggestion thread for this rather than making an essay in somebody's else's thread.

Please read (or skim) though this, as it's sort of required to understand why I'm making this suggestion:

Spoiler!

The current tank system, as I understand it. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

I am highlighting the key points for TL;DR

Initially only "Tank Commander" classes will be open. Upon choosing a "Tank Commander" class, the Tank Commander is assigned to a tank (with it's residual AI crew) in which he will spawn, and two new classes will open up for other players. Upon choosing the TC class and leaving the tank "Open," other people may choose to pick a "Tank Crewman" class and spawn inside the Tank Commander's tank to perform their given duty (driver, hull gunner) If there are 4 Tank Commanders on the map, then there will be 4 tanks. If there are Four "Open" tanks, then there will be 12 slots total for tanker positions.

Now, the Tank Commander may choose to "Lock" his tank, thereby removing the ability for other players to enter his tank, and thereby removing the option for others to join as "Tank Crewmen," At this point he will be relying on the "AI Crew," which he can give orders to via the Numpad commands.

With that in mind, I see a potential flaw in this new system, which I will explain in this box:

Given that a Tank Commander may choose to lock his tank, he can thereby choose to go Solo Tanking. In ROOST if a person chose to solo tank, they'd be handicapped by the need to switch positions. In ROOST, if two people chose to tank as a team (driver and gunners) then they'd be rewarded with the ability to shoot and reload while moving, an ability which a solo tanker would not have.

Given that fact, a tank in ROOST with Three people in it would have been roughly 50% more combat-effective at minimum, than a tank with only one crewman, In theory, a a "Team Tank" would be able to engage multiple "Solo Tanks" at one time with reasonable success given their inherent teamwork advantage.

This is not the case in RO2. A Solo Tanker (IE: a tank with one human occupant) receives the same advantages as those who choose to Team Tank; both the Team Tankers and the Solo Tanker in RO2 have the ability to shoot and move at the same time. The Solo Tanker may also have an even more significant advantage over the Team Tankers, given that he essentially has the ability to control the direction and the gun of the tank at the same time, meaning he has direct control over the entire tank at once. Wheras Team Tankers need to relay info to each other (and have the lag between it)

Conclusion: On a Combined Arms map with limited Tank Commander slots, Tank Commanders will strip other players of the ability to play as Tank Crewman, especially since he gains an inherit advantage out of solo tanking. This is selfish and greedy, not the sort of conduct that should be surpported in a game like RO2 (in my opinion)

In tank combat maps that have unlimited numbers of Tank Commanders (ergo, have unlimited numbers of tanks) those who Team tank will be punished because they will likely be up against a superior number of single-human-occupant enemy tanks, so they will be at a distinct disadvantage, For the purpose of argument, if one team deides to Team Tank exclusively, and the other team decides to Solo Tank exclusively, then it will be 11 Tanks vs 32 tanks. I dont need a slide-rule to tell you that is completely unfair. Because of that conclusion, those who choose to Team Tank will be at a disadvantage themselves, and will put the rest of their team at a disadvantage. Ergo, the entire system encourages selfishness and lack of teamwork. Which; to my knowledge is sort of against the point of the entire game.

Alright, with that out of the way, my suggestion is that there be a primary server-side options that go as follows:

Soft-Lock (this, IMO, should be the default server option)

- Upon choosing the Tank Commander class, and choosing to Lock your tank, you will be placed on the "Locked Tank List." Those who choose to leave their tank Unlocked will be placed on the "Unlocked Tank List"

What this means is that the tanks in the "unlocked tank list" will receive priority over those that are locked. The Unlocked Tanks will need to be filled up, and upon being filled up, the tanks that are on the "Locked Tank List," will be unlocked, so other players can join them.

It'd be a hierarchy system, based on the Tank Commander's Preference. So as long as people aren't flooding into the Tank Classes, a Tank Commander may choose to pilot his tank alone, so long as there are others who don't mind team tanking.

As another option, your placement on the "locked list" could be based upon your "tank reputation" so depending on how good you are, you will be encouraged to pair up with people of a similar skill, that way you wont be stuck with anybody whos far better or far worse than you.

Hard Lock Option:

- Tank locking is entirely up to the discretion of whoever nabs the Tank Commander class first. This (as I udnerstand it) is the current implemented system.

IMO, this should not be the default option. Many server operators are lazy, and will likely glaze over the server side options, the Soft Lock (IMO...) is a more moderate and balanced approach, and should be on by default so it is properly utilized. Those who want the Hard-Lock option can choose it in the server options if they go looking for it (good for solo-tanking servers)

Just my 200 cents.. :IS2:

 

[Welcome_To_Hell]

Id say get rid of the locking system all together its silly and will lead to a lot of heartbreak.

- What if someone wants to tank and there is a douche in the Commander Seat who will not unlock the seats?

- What if the tank is filled up and than a douche in the Commander Seat locks it?

Comeawn there is only two tanks. Not like there will be a million tank maps. Just have four tanks max per map that way only 8 people on each side will be required to operate them.


Leave the slots open all the time and if no one has taken the slot it will be AI, if someone has than AI is gone.

 

[Hypno Toad]

Im not sure you read my suggestion, because I'm almsot 100% postive it'd be a better system than either of the alterntives.

Those who lock their tank will be given a higher presedense for solo tanking than those who leave it unlocked. Those who leave their tank unlocked obviously dont mind, and those who lock their tanks will be given more solo-tanking time up until demand surpasses supply

(though, if they both lock then one will need to be defaulted)

 

[PatrickPretzels]

I'm pretty sure that servers running in Realism mode will have no AI in the tanks.
There's something.

 

[Furious]

Teamwork only works if the person in the tank is willing to work with you.

All too often pubbers do not have (or use) voice, do not speak your language, or will fire the hull mg all the way to contact, ignore commands, etc

There has to be a way that's fair, and doesn't ruin the experience for either party - I just can't see a way past locking a tank and having only selected people join you. Playing time is often short and being locked in a steel coffin with uncooperative, uncommunicative, and non-teamwork focused player(s) is my idea of hell

Having a well admined server will go a long way towards sorting out problems early also

 

[MagicSnake]

Hmm...

So, if I understand correctly...

Soft-lock:
Let's say the map being played supports 4 tank commanders (thus 4 tanks). 1 tank commander leaves his tank unlocked, the 3 others choose to lock it.

Now, I think there's room for 3 people in a tank : driver, gunner/commander and MG gunner.

If there's no-one or only 1 other player on the server who picks the now-unlocked tank crewman class, all other tanks (3) are "blocked" until some other player()s fill the remaining tank crewman spots (1 tank commander -> 2 tank crewman spots)

And if the 3 players who initially took tank commander and locked their tanks switch to tank crewman instead so they can actually be in a tank, and after an unsuccessful run with the remaining tank commander (the one who had his tank unlocked) decide to give up on tanking...

You might be left with an handicapped team with only 1 out of 4 tanks in play...

It might not happen often, but still I think it's too high a risk and too restrictive to be the default option (i.e. the option on public servers.)

But I must say I really do like the option! and I would love to see it available to server admins who which to encourage team-tanking

EDIT:
I'd just like to add that solo-tanking as nothing to do with not being a team player, especially considering the way tanks work in RO2. As an analogy to what I mean, let's say every infantryman is in fact composed of two distinct conscious individual parts : Upper torso and Lower torso. Upper torso aims and shoots, while Lower torso runs and crouches being cover. Now, let's say when you pick the Upper torso "class", you have the option of "locking" Lower torso so his role is taken over by the AI, and said AI responds to your orders (i.e. keystrokes). Inversely, you can simply leave it unlocked and "team-infantry" with a friend.

Now, would "solo-infantrying" mean you're not a good team player? I don't think so: you'd still be fully capable of supporting your fellow teammates with suppressive fire and what-not.

Pretty much the same thing with "solo-tanking" : on combined arms maps, there's nothing preventing you from supporting your infantry efficiently, while in tank maps there's nothing preventing you from tactically positioning yourself relative to your fellow tanks to cover their weak spots, etc.

Now, in ROost it's another story because how the tank/tank crewman system worked: there were always more tank crewmen than there were tanks, and there was no AI crew, meaning you were much less effective solo-tanking (unless your fellow crewman drank too much vodka) so yes, solo-tanking in ROost could easily pass as being selfish.

So, yeah: I'm quite excited about the tanking system in RO2, to say the least

 

[billyboy]

Id say get rid of the locking system all together its silly and will lead to a lot of heartbreak.

No. I want the locking system. I am sick and tired of all the idiots who get in the tank and can't follow the extremely simple 'stop and go' orders when they're driving. People who can't understand the simple concept of angling the tank. Those idiots that get me killed and waste the tanks.

I just hope there is a way to lock but also allow competent people/friends you know in the vehicle.

 

[alex0809]

I think the main advantage is something else, for me much more important let's take a combined arms map with 4 tanks:

in RO: 4 tanks with 3 crewmen = 12 tank crewmen
so there's only 13 infantry grunts left! That's just not right in a CA map

in RO2: 4 tanks = 4 crewmen - still 28 infantry units! That's some real CA finally!

 

[Nylle]

I'm pretty sure that servers running in Realism mode will have no AI in the tanks.
There's something.

Nope, Ai in tanks in realism too. Because thats the most realistic.

 

[Welcome_To_Hell]

No. I want the locking system. I am sick and tired of all the idiots who get in the tank and can't follow the extremely simple 'stop and go' orders when they're driving. People who can't understand the simple concept of angling the tank. Those idiots that get me killed and waste the tanks.

I just hope there is a way to lock but also allow competent people/friends you know in the vehicle.

Its a game...

 

[MagicSnake]

Nope, Ai in tanks in realism too. Because thats the most realistic.

Indeed, even an unlocked tank will have AI to fill unoccupied spots, else it'd be a fiasco.

No. I want the locking system. I am sick and tired of all the idiots who get in the tank and can't follow the extremely simple 'stop and go' orders when they're driving. People who can't understand the simple concept of angling the tank. Those idiots that get me killed and waste the tanks.

I just hope there is a way to lock but also allow competent people/friends you know in the vehicle.

Its a game...

Being a game makes it all the more important to try and eliminate from said sources of frustration

 

[Wesreidau]

I hope I can have a locked tank yet invite my buddies into it without unlocking it and getting pubbie drivers who are six shots into the evening and believe in driving the tank in a serpentine fashion.