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Shooting a 91/30.. Real vs RO:O

{YBBS}Sage

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 15, 2006
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Today at the range I like to visit, they were holding a Tactical Rifle shoot. I decided to drop in with my 91/30 and see what it was like to use the real deal in a combat-like situation.

For those who don't know, Tactical Rifle shooting is a type of combat shooting... for rifles...

I'd say, after doing this, that RO:O is a pretty good simulator for what it's like to try using one of these rifles tactically. The only thing I didn't try was hipshooting, but I did shoot on the move using sights. I shot from pretty much all the positions I prefer in RO:O; only standing shooting I really did was when I did the walk-and-shoot section (two targets, two hits required each.) Otherwise, I was kneeling and propping my rifle on the edge or top of my "cover" (hmm, familiar, no?), or shooting prone from behind "cover." Cover is in "" because an empty barrel or a sheet of 3/8 inch plywood ain't cover. It won't even slow a bullet down signifigantly.

Anyway, I was shooting the rifle without the bayonet on. I didn't bring it, since I wasn't sure about their policy on the sticker, and I've got the windage set for having the bayonet off anyway...

Engaging some targets took a moment of aiming, others were easy as pie. Since RO:O doesn't really distinguish (for rifles anyway) between dead-center mass and, say, a shoulder hit (either way, you die), and I didn't have much trouble lining up at LEAST that well quickly at up to about 40-50 yards, I have to give the game the nod again for realism.

Don't even get me started about Stage Three and the infamous "clay birds of doom". They had two hung in the middle of used tires that you had to hit at about 50 yards. A 3" target at 50 yards? What's so tough about that? Well, apparently an M1A with a scope, or an AR with as much $$ spent on mods and optics as I spent on my car isn't a sure-fire way to break them.

I hit one on the first shot. I hit the other on the third. :D
 
Ugh. Don't even get me started on Tactical Teddies and Mall Ninjas...

I say if you can't make 10MOA unsupported with ironsights, you should not even bother with optics. One of those "get the basics right first ya n00b" things.

For perspective: 10MOA is right about 10" at 100yd, 11" at 100m (thereabouts). Basically, if you can't hit something about as big as a sheet of printer paper without a scope, especially with already-quite-good ironsights, you have a problem.
 
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[CiA]Stiletto said:
Ugh. Don't even get me started on Tactical Teddies and Mall Ninjas...

I say if you can't make 10MOA unsupported with ironsights, you should not even bother with optics. One of those "get the basics right first ya n00b" things.

For perspective: 10MOA is right about 10" at 100yd, 11" at 100m (thereabouts). Basically, if you can't hit something about as big as a sheet of printer paper without a scope, especially with already-quite-good ironsights, you have a problem.

ROFL, yeah, there were a lot of surplus uniforms there, too. I was in jeans, a t-shirt (my sWs shirt) and a Snap-on Racing cap. :p

I'd be pretty ashamed of myself if, at this point anyway, I couldn't hit a ten inch target at 100 yards with my 91/30. And the sights aren't exactly what I consider "good." I really miss the diopter sight on my M1 Carbine.

Oh, I forgot to mention... a lot of people's barrels were probably pretty fouled by the time they got to the 'birds in Stage Three. Those of us who saved it for last (I did) had fired close to 100 rounds by the time they got to the birds, since they were some of the last targets on that Stage.
 
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These type of shoots are also about using your body as much as your rifle.


I don't know what kind of shape you are in, but for guys in poor shape the breathing is what gets them. By the end of the course breathing rate is so high and chest heaving so much that accurate shooting becomes very difficult.
 
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Wish they did these things in Australia, I want to take my No.4MkI* to one of them :(

It'd be awesome to see a man with his Nagant showing the tactical AR guys how it's done, not onlly is the Nagant more powerful and accurate enough for the task, but you don't need to clean it with a $50 a bottle fancy oil mixture to keep it working! A swift kick and some abuse is all it takes to keep a Mosin going :D
 
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They really out-ran me time-wise.

I forgot to mention that there were some very awesome shooters there that made my shooting look like crap (not that it isn't, but, hey, it's my first REAL rifle.)

And everybody was cool, supportive and more about having fun than anything else.

It was a really great time for everybody involved.

I'm not in bad shape, though I'm not in GREAT shape. Breathing didn't matter as much if you used your cover to support your rifle, and more than one person was using a bipod.

I've heard the $50 bottle of fancy oil thing is kind of an urban legend created and perpetuated by overly-anal-retentive AR owners. I've heard of ex-SEALs stunning those types buy applying WD40 (which I won't even use on cars) to their AR's guts.

But, hell, for the cost of one of those $50 bottles, I could pick up almost 500 rounds of surplus ammo... or be more than half-way to buying another rifle. :p Next must be an M38, I've decided. Then an SVT40...

Ooooo, and since I missed my diopter sights so much, I picked up a Mojo rear sight for my rifle. Changing it out for the original was a pain, but I think it'll be worth it for windage and elevation adjustments with an allen wrench. The sight picture is neat. The aperture matches up to the front sight hood, so you get a single circle with the post sticking up in the middle of it. Can't wait to try it out!

here's a pic of how it looks:
17123520424.jpg


Anybody need ammo? :D

17123473843.jpg


115 rounds, ready to go. Sad thing is, I'm still waiting on those 10 Finnish strippers I want to try out.

Buying 20 more of those clips made more economical sense than buying 10 more...
 
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Personally, I'd get the SVT40 first, they're definitely becomming more scarce than M38's at a more rapid rate too. I'd get one while the getting was good!

It's a shame that 7.62x54R is so bloody expensive here, no **** it's like the total reverse of the states here. For example I can get 1000's of rounds of .303 British relatively cheaply, while 7.6254R is a goddamned nightmare to find and then even more of a nightmare price wise :(
 
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Interesting. Nice post. My uncle once invited me and a bunch of his friends for a self organized shooting contest. We could choose any weapon chambered in the 9x19mm Parabellum. Most of them chose Glocks but I grabbed Glock 17's, a P38 or Luger. I made sure to get one of the Pre-War Polish ViS's. Let's just make it short. Kicked their ass.
 
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Reddog said:
It's a shame that 7.62x54R is so bloody expensive here, no **** it's like the total reverse of the states here. For example I can get 1000's of rounds of .303 British relatively cheaply, while 7.6254R is a goddamned nightmare to find and then even more of a nightmare price wise :(

Yeah where I Live i can get 400rds of 7.62x54R for 40USD while .303 British is about 20 USD a box of 20.
 
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Heh, for 50 dollars of oil cleaner, you could buy ONE reproduction SVT-40 magazine too.

So how are those stripper clips? (I'm assuming they're the crappy aftermarket ones that are hell to reload with). And yeah, hopefully you'll be able to get a report on those Finnish strippers, I have the link saved up and I don't want to end up with sore thumbs.
 
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Actually, the cheap strippers (Hungarian I think) seem Ok if you keep them adjusted tightly and slide the ammo in right. I overlap the rims all in the same direction so the bottom round is overlapped by the next one that's overlapped by.. well, you get it. I was trying a loose adjust on them when I was at the shoot.. Since then I sat down and played around with loading my magazine (bolt removed for safety) with different adjustments on the strippers...

The Finnish strippers are nice, they might be easier to load with (haven't tried it in the field yet, though. Gotta wait till June for the next Tactical Rifle shoot...) since they seem to fit the grooves in the reciever better. There's a bit more slop with the other strippers, letting them wander forward and back a little, which might be what's trying to pooch my loading process. I'll take my collection of clips to the range with me this weekend and see what happens.

The collection is impressive now... I've got 23 total (ten Finns and 13 Hungarians)...

Yes, they each have 5 rounds in them. :D
 
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Eh, I got some "extra" refurb-issue naugahyde pouches. Now I can carry 12 strippers with me. :D

What I've got is Albanian: http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo014.htm

It's ok, but I'm going to try something different. The number of cases that won't chamber thanks to folded necks is over 5% in this tin... Sure, that's not bad for ammo that's about ten cents a round, but I can get a better price, and I think I can get a better percentage on what won't work.

http://aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_7_62x54R.html

Plus, I've heard that Hungarian yellow-tip is niiiice in the 91/30.
 
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User Name said:
If ya'll want some real SOVIET ammunition you can buy it here.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=270458

I bought a case and it's some of the best looking surplus I've bought. Looks better than new Wolf! They've only got a limited amount though! (How many times have we heard THAT one:rolleyes: )

Doesn't actually seem to be that much of it coming in anymore, according to 7.62x54R.net.

AIM seems to have a good deal on Hungarian heavy ball... I think I'll try that next. 7.62x54R.net said the Soviet 91/30 they tested it in loved it.
 
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{YBBS}Sage said:
Doesn't actually seem to be that much of it coming in anymore, according to 7.62x54R.net.

AIM seems to have a good deal on Hungarian heavy ball... I think I'll try that next. 7.62x54R.net said the Soviet 91/30 they tested it in loved it.

Yeah, it may take awhile but eventually. This era of cheap surplus 7.62x54r will come to an end. It happened with 303 Brit. It happened with 30-06. (except through the CMP or the occasional Korean import) It will happen within the next couple of years with 8mm.

I've built up a stock of about 3,500 rounds of 7.62x54r. I've heard of folks with over 50,:eek: :eek: :eek: rounds saved up.
 
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