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Red Orchestra 2 Tank Dynamics

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#22
RandomPerson78642 said:
No tank AI is a terrible idea.

Human drivers can't see what you see, they don't know exactly where to go, and they keep messing up your shots.
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In my opinion, human drivers worked well (enough) in RO:Ostfront. If I remember correctly, as a gunner you could give quick commands for the driver with a numpad, e.g. numpad 8 commands "forwards", 6 "right", 4 "left" etc. Had a fun time playing in tanks even with completely strangers :)

Playing "alone" in a tank without other human players wasn't much different in RO:Ostfront than in RO2. No tank AI just meant, that you had to change from gunners seat to drivers seat (which happened instantly) when you wanted to move. Tank's cannon also didn't reload itself, if there wasn't a gunner in place. It means that the tank was most efficient if it had both a driver and a gunner. I liked that more than the way it's now in RO2, where the tank is about as effective with one player as it's with two players or more.
 
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#23
Yeah, but in RO2 you have to physically move to the seat.

Drive to a spot, climb into the gunner seat.
Fire a round, climb in the loader seat.
Load a round, climb into the gunner seat.

Absolutely terrible.

I've played RO1 as well, I know what it's like. And yeah, there it works because of that instant transition. But not in RO2.
 
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#24
Yes, the Num-Pad commands - I have already add them to my first post.
That was a good and easy way to told your tankmade what he have to do (when he listen to it :D )
There was even a command for "just a little bit forward" or "a little bit to the left". So everything you need to tell your driver could be done with the 10 Nun-Pad numbers. All directions and "get out of here" (Num 0)

It was just a great time when I play with one or two friends (we all was in TS/Ventrilo) in a tank. We was able to shoot while moving with our maingun and MG (very usefull on combined arms maps like Arad, Barashka, Berenzina or Bondarevo). Everyone has his task and with 2 or 3 human player inside a tank you are superior to all the other who just sit alone in their tanks.

And this is how teamplay should work. Right now one single player could control a whole tank, no team needed... that
 
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#25
You people just have nostalgia goggles. Face it: unless you have a bunch of friends that know exactly what they're doing and listen to you always, relying on humans is a bad idea. 9/10 times you'll be doing just fine, then a human climbs in ruins everything.

As a matter of fact I'd argue that a human/AI tank is more effective than a purely human one. The AI has its drawbacks, but it has a lot of advantages as well. I've listed a bunch here.
 
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#26
RandomPerson78642 said:
Yeah, but in RO2 you have to physically move to the seat.

Drive to a spot, climb into the gunner seat.
Fire a round, climb in the loader seat.
Load a round, climb into the gunner seat.

Absolutely terrible.
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Nope, you just need to do this when one crewmember was killed. If the Crew is complete you can switch the position without any delay.

And of course it should need some time to switch the seat when a crewmember was killed.

The only different is that you can
 
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#27
If there's no AI then all the other seats are empty, so that doesn't work.

Also, it seems we're arguing based on differing opinions. I DESPISE playing with humans, and it seems you're the exact opposite.

So there's really no point to this conversation, unless we want to keep trying to change the other's mind.


EDIT: Maybe I said that wrong. I love playing with humans, but I really hate playing against humans.
Even if a single human joins the enemy team, the whole experience is ruined. I have to focus really hard on every move, I get incredibly sweaty and my heart rate shoots up tremendously. It's just way too much stress and not fun at all.


My point still stands though, human crewmates are far too unreliable for you to be properly effective.
 
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#29
RandomPerson78642 said:
EDIT: Maybe I said that wrong. I love playing with humans, but I really hate playing against humans.
Even if a single human joins the enemy team, the whole experience is ruined. I have to focus really hard on every move, I get incredibly sweaty and my heart rate shoots up tremendously. It's just way too much stress and not fun at all.
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Okay, that is something different then. Doesn
 
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#31
I don't know, I see the appeal of AI tankers but the most fun and best tanking I've ever done was with another guy communicating with me as driver/gunner. Maybe even a third as the hull gunner.

For the most part if I'm alone in a tank I play dead and wait for the enemy tank to make a move, and then kill him when he looks the other way. Boring but efficient if you're trying to hold down an objective against infantry by using the hull MG.

I like the list you made, Kleist. Some great ideas that someone should be writing down for the next installment of RO :)
 
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#33
RandomPerson78642 said:
It's a bad idea to only use the hull MG, because then the cannon just sits there. It's better to use all three guns at the same time.
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Can't play dead with a cannon going off :D

If I'm in combat I'll tell all the gunners to fire at will like you suggest, but if I'm waiting to pounce on an enemy tank while taking out infantry I'm going to use the hull MG because it gives off an incredibly minimal profile while still being very deadly. Most of the time infantry can't even tell my tank apart from a dead one because the turret isn't moving.

It's a formula I've used to great success. Just like the formula you talk about for maximizing fire output in battle.
 
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#35
WASD always bugged me for steering.


For the Driver, use QAWSED.


Q is left side clutch, basically slow turn.
A is left side brake, tap for short skids, hold for pivot.
W/S is still incremental throttle. Forget gear changes as PPL would get turned off.
E is right side clutch.
D right side brake.


For those who didn't know about the clutch, tanks would behave more or less the same. Of course there would be appropriate soundFX for each key.
 
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#36
Twrecks said:
WASD always bugged me for steering.


For the Driver, use QAWSED.


Q is left side clutch, basically slow turn.
A is left side brake, tap for short skids, hold for pivot.
W/S is still incremental throttle. Forget gear changes as PPL would get turned off.
E is right side clutch.
D right side brake.


For those who didn't know about the clutch, tanks would behave more or less the same. Of course there would be appropriate soundFX for each key.
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That. That. yes.
 
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#37
Marsalkka Mahtimeisseli said:
I think one of the reasons why it's so easy to camp in a tank and kill infantry, is because the tank sights are too good. IRL gunner's sight had a quite limited field of view, especially in "early" Russian tanks. Now the sight picture in T-34 is about 1400 pixels wide in diameter on my 1920x1080 screen, but if we'd have realistic sight picture, it would be only around 621 pixels wide. PzIV would have a little bit better visibility, with a 1004 pixels wide in diameter sight. Then again, I don't know how people would react to these "nerfed" sights...
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Interesting you say this (sources?) because I have the most experience playing in the T34, which has the wonderful periscope feature as well as it's main gun. And when I talk about how good the T34 seems, people say

"Oh but the Panzer 4 has better optics"

Now, other than the Hull MG having an actual telescope rather than a hole too look out of, what advantages does the P4 have in optics? Slightly more zoom or something?

I've never noticed a significant difference; so your suggestion of nerfing the T34 optics makes sense to me
 
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#39
Calumhm said:
Interesting you say this (sources?) because I have the most experience playing in the T34, which has the wonderful periscope feature as well as it's main gun. And when I talk about how good the T34 seems, people say

"Oh but the Panzer 4 has better optics"
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I had a discussion with IOM developers about tank optics in a thread, which you might be interested to see:

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=25962http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=25962

There you can see my calculations how the sights should act in game.

Here are some sources for tank sight features:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130523033704/http://www.tarrif.net/cgi/production/all_gunsights_adv.phphttp://web.archive.org/web/20130523033704/http://www.tarrif.net/cgi/production/all_gunsights_adv.php

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/weapons/sign_tanks.htmhttp://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/weapons/sign_tanks.htm

http://www.panzerworld.com/german-armor-opticshttp://www.panzerworld.com/german-armor-optics

jaegerplatoon.net/TANK_GUNS.htm

As you can see, PzIV has better FoV than T-34 and zoom is about the same.
 
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#40
mrsirr said:
I'd like there to be a brew up animation instead of the vehicles just exploding gloriously every time. It's very nice when they explode like that, but I feel like a brew up is the more common way a catastrophic kill happens.
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emcdunna said:
What about catching tanks on fire: not killing instantly but slowly burning crew for 10 ish seconds till it blows up. It'd be like the current "wounded" animation when you are shot somewhere that doesn't instantly kill you.
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I've implemented both of these, in the version of 1.15 currently languishing on my drive :eek:

Sorry I've been so absent everyone; I'll be working on IOM and certain related... things full time this summer.
 
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