Piss-poor teamwork and general player behavior

[Ragga]

I try. but most of the time you just want to talk to that one soldier that is right beside you and isn't in your squad. theres also the fact that squads are mostly ignored at the moment.

so true!

 

[Holy.Death]

As it is now, we just see that "Blahalhal" said something... and I have no real clue where he is at!

I agree.

Yesterday on the Fallen Fighters map I was a squad leader moving with some random guys (since squads are often scattered), so I was forced to use team VOIP. MG guy was asking for ammo, I did cover the front with bolt-action rifle man, MG'er was a few steps behind me with elite rifleman next to him. I had to turn around and tell him to "Give ammo to MG to your left". He did. Then I said that "We cover front! Right flank, move up, move up!", but all that was useless for people fighting elsewhere.

Squad VOIP in my experience is almost never used (because people don't care about unit movement and more often than not you happen to lie down with people from different squads), next to public VOIP. 3D VOIP would make team coordination in a small area so much better... It's bad when I want to shout warning about enemy snipers/MG/grenade and if I play on realism then I can't shout by name (you need to be really close to see names of teammates). Simple "Don't go in there!" said in team VOIP won't fit into specific situation happening in one area of the map and with team VOIP you have to be more specific to let the guy know you're talking to him.

 

[DetCord]

I played a lot of RO back in the day. I also play ArmA 2 in a realism squad. Now, I'm not asking for that type of stuff in RO:HoS, but teamwork certainly adds to the immersion factor. Problem is, it's virtually nonexistent here. As a previous poster stated, he rarely plays but once a week and for an average of 15-20 minutes, if that. The group of guys I play with have simply given up on it, as have I for that matter and will not be going back for a long time... if ever.

Maybe it'll get better or maybe it'll just die a quiet death in the months and years to come. Seeing that the majority of the old cats (player base) have left, certainly doesn't bode well for this tactical/arcade/realistic/run and gun whatever hybrid it's trying to be just isn't working.

 

[mattlach]

hah.

So regarding the "how do I know what squad I'm on" comment earlier...

The draft manual doesn't even go into how you know what squad you're on.

I guess you are just supposed to know these things...

 

[Stormer]

Yeah, exactly the same situation here. I somehow bring myself to play RO2 about once a week, and even then, I usually can't play for more than 10-15 minutes at a time. I just get frustrated by all the non-realistic BS that totally kills any immersion of being in a WWII battle. It's obviously not just the kit loadouts, but the Quake-like close combat (circle strafing FTW!), SMG spamming all over the place, endless spawn exit camping, the completely silly wound/bandage system, and people exploiting by doing things such as turning off smoke in their games (a VERY common thing), all add up to an experience that doesn't satisfy my desire for a realistic and tactical shooter.

Same here, compared to RO1 when you were immersed and played for hours, RO2 got boring very fast with this dumbed down silly gameplay.

 

[Cyper]

I agree.

Yesterday on the Fallen Fighters map I was a squad leader moving with some random guys (since squads are often scattered), so I was forced to use team VOIP. MG guy was asking for ammo, I did cover the front with bolt-action rifle man, MG'er was a few steps behind me with elite rifleman next to him. I had to turn around and tell him to "Give ammo to MG to your left". He did. Then I said that "We cover front! Right flank, move up, move up!", but all that was useless for people fighting elsewhere.

Squad VOIP in my experience is almost never used (because people don't care about unit movement and more often than not you happen to lie down with people from different squads), next to public VOIP. 3D VOIP would make team coordination in a small area so much better... It's bad when I want to shout warning about enemy snipers/MG/grenade and if I play on realism then I can't shout by name (you need to be really close to see names of teammates). Simple "Don't go in there!" said in team VOIP won't fit into specific situation happening in one area of the map and with team VOIP you have to be more specific to let the guy know you're talking to him.

This is one of the reasons why I don't understand why the old RO command system was removed and replaced with the rubbish we se today in ro2. It's stripped down to the limit. It looks like It's made for a console game. In RO1 players that didn't have a mic could use the command systen which included Support, Aknowledge, Enemy spotted, Alert, Commands, and Taunts. with it's own keybinding. Basicly all that was needed. All players could read the command on the screen but it was only HEARD by people nearby. All this in a 2-3 clicks. I wonder why they didn't add more to that system instead of removing all of it.

 

[Stormer]

This is one of the reasons why I don't understand why the old RO command system was removed and replaced with the rubbish we se today in ro2. It's stripped down to the limit. It looks like it's made for a console game.

Well it's obvious, because thats where TWI longterm plan is. I have no doubt the next RO will be on consoles, the gameplay in RO2 is already halfway there.

 

[Bart_D7]

RO2 is greatest disappointment this year.

 

[Holy.Death]

All players could read the command on the screen but it was only HEARD by people nearby. All this in a 2-3 clicks. I wonder why they didn't add more to that system instead of removing all of it.

Probably because your alter ego (I mean soldier you animate in-game) is saying such things. I still think that adding 3D VOIP would fix most of the problems people currently have with working as a unit.

 

[wake_up]

How to play as a team at RO2?
Mind the new BF like open map design and the fast gameplay.
There is no room for teamplay, when your only choice is to run
out and get to the next thing where you can cover behind,
or you

 

[samol]

Same here, compared to RO1 when you were immersed and played for hours, RO2 got boring very fast with this dumbed down silly gameplay.

Sad but true !
I miss the teamchat of RO1 (almost inexistant on public server on R02). I can't even say a "gg" at the end of a round.
It makes me feel like playing against bots not humans !

I only hope that new maps make it better, I'm really sick of those "attack-attack map".
I wish to be able to establish defensive positions against the ennemy, to worry about reinforcements (good old stalingradkessel !), to break threw the defensive line !

 

[zugumba]

what if the commanders were able to promote/demote squad leaders and squad leaders able to remove/invite people from their squad (is it already possible?) so people who don't obey orders could be removed and new ones invited and commanders demote squad leaders who just picked the class to get a smg. all of this in good and intuitive interface.

 

[mattlach]

You know, at first I was critical of this thread...

...and then I played late last night on my favorite server ( [2.FJg] Tactical Realism] )

When I normally play (usually right after work for an hour or two, so 5:30pm to 7:30pm EST) the server is surprisingly good for a pub. There is actually some teamwork, and objectives are taken, etc.

Last night after midnight (my wife was feeling sick, so we didn't go out like we usually du on Saturday nights), the server was a mess. No one was even trying. Germans were just falling back and trying to snipe and not even going for objectives. Squad leaders (presumably just kids who selected the role because they wanted the MP40 were not smoking strategic points, but just camping behind objects hoping to shoot some Russian who for some stupid reason might have tried to attack the German spawn points.

It was a mess. I tried to coordinate people and get attacks going with no success at all, then I got pissed, quit the game, had a Tequila drink and watched some TV.


So the moral of this story... Try to play the game during the hours that more mature people play video games. Right after work, and not too late at night is a decent time. If you play during business hours, or really late at night, when most adults need to either work or sleep, I think you are more likely to get the results I did last night...

 

[smokeythebear]

None of the features in this game facilitate teamwork. Mods like FH2 and project reality had people actually interested in designing games geared towards teamwork while RO2 devs were interested in gimmicks.

 

[mattlach]

None of the features in this game facilitate teamwork. Mods like FH2 and project reality had people actually interested in designing games geared towards teamwork while RO2 devs were interested in gimmicks.

I disagree with this statement.

Teamwork is absolutely crucial in winning a round in RO2, more so than any other game I have played.

The problem isn't that teamwork has been reemphasized. It's that the CoD and BF morons who bought the game hoping for some WWII deathmatch idiocy don't care about winning. They just want to run around and shoot.

 

[Cyper]

I disagree with this statement.

Teamwork is absolutely crucial in winning a round in RO2, more so than any other game I have played.

The problem isn't that teamwork has been reemphasized. It's that the CoD and BF morons who bought the game hoping for some WWII deathmatch idiocy don't care about winning. They just want to run around and shoot.

I reckon you've never played either RO1 or arma 2 then..

RO1 simply punish players for not playing the game correctly a lot more better than RO2. Because that's exactly what RO1 is about: Playing in a certain way, and unless you don't do that - well, then this player can just leave. RO2 allows players to run and gun a lot more than RO1 did. As a matter of fact, there were no skillpoints (cheats) in RO1, no unlocks, and no ability to run and gun as much as in RO2 - mostly because the weaponhandling had a quite high learning curve. The game aimed at a certain audience and left every other player out in the cold.

The fact that RO2 is more tactical than BF or COD isn't something to be proud off. The fact that we're even able to compare RO2 with COD or BF is a real shame - it should be so diffrent than cod and bf that it shouldn't be any real ability to compare them at all. That's why RO1 became quite popular among a small fanbase. Because it was extremely innovative and diffrent, and people couldn't compare it to any other game.

 

[pepihoh]

This is one of the reasons why I don't understand why the old RO command system was removed and replaced with the rubbish we se today in ro2. It's stripped down to the limit. It looks like It's made for a console game. In RO1 players that didn't have a mic could use the command systen which included Support, Aknowledge, Enemy spotted, Alert, Commands, and Taunts. with it's own keybinding. Basicly all that was needed. All players could read the command on the screen but it was only HEARD by people nearby. All this in a 2-3 clicks. I wonder why they didn't add more to that system instead of removing all of it.

What are you talking about? The commo rose is much easier to use and it offers the same functionality as the command menu in ro1.

 

[Squad Leader]

I reckon you've never played either RO1 or arma 2 then..

RO1 simply punish players for not playing the game correctly a lot more better than RO2. Because that's exactly what RO1 is about: Playing in a certain way, and unless you don't do that - well, then this player can just leave. RO2 allows players to run and gun a lot more than RO1 did. As a matter of fact, there were no skillpoints (cheats) in RO1, no unlocks, and no ability to run and gun as much as in RO2 - mostly because the weaponhandling had a quite high learning curve. The game aimed at a certain audience and left every other player out in the cold.

The fact that RO2 is more tactical than BF or COD isn't something to be proud off. The fact that we're even able to compare RO2 with COD or BF is a real shame - it should be so diffrent than cod and bf that it shouldn't be any real ability to compare them at all. That's why RO1 became quite popular among a small fanbase. Because it was extremely innovative and diffrent, and people couldn't compare it to any other game.

Maybe you should play on more competitive servers then. Because the servers I play on "run n' gun" is just a reinforcement drain. The defenders set up overlapping fields of fire and are excellent marksmen. Without a concerted effort from SL and commander it's always a loss. Atleast, when it comes to territory control.

 

[Sir Reginald]

You have noticed that TWI tried very much (if not their best) to use ^^ (scoreboard) to improve the team play, right?
Did you ever notice that for most part (unless camping at spawn tank is involved) the top players are those going after objectives, and doing so with their team. Right?

Simple math to show the rewards given:

• One Kill = 2 points
• One Kill from objective, enemy outside objective = 2 + 2 (from bonus) = 4 points
• One Kill from objective, enemy inside objective = 2 + 2 (from bonus) + 2 (in bonus) = 6 points
• One Kill from objective, enemy inside objective, squad leader in vicinity = 2 + 2 (from bonus) + 2 (in bonus) + 1 (SL bonus) = 7 points
• One Kill from objective, enemy inside objective, squad leader in vicinity, commander in vicinity = 2 + 2 (from bonus) + 2 (in bonus) + 1 (SL bonus) + 1 (CO bonus) = 8 points

Only thing missing, is bonus points for squads that follow the orders, i.e. for taking objective that was given by commander, if commander is smart enough to do that.
Both Squad Leaders, Squad members, and CO's should be rewarded for assigning/following directions

the problem with this system is it rewards camping over winning
the people rushing forward die alot more while the campers gain points for camping
Anther problem is alot of the key postions on maps are not in cap zones
the maps should be about WINNING you should get the most points for winning they should reward winning not losing by camping
AS the system is now on most maps your get better rewards camping a cap zone than winning
easy fix + scores for winning - scores for losing
but of couse they needs to fix some of the maps first

 

[mattlach]

the problem with this system is it rewards camping over winning
the people rushing forward die alot more while the campers gain points for camping
Anther problem is alot of the key postions on maps are not in cap zones
the maps should be about WINNING you should get the most points for winning they should reward winning not losing by camping
AS the system is now on most maps your get better rewards camping a cap zone than winning
easy fix + scores for winning - scores for losing
but of couse they needs to fix some of the maps first

Until you get a CAP zone capture bonus, which is like an instant 40 points or something...


IMHO, they ought to keep the current system, but remove any reference in the game to "number of kills" or "number of deaths" or K/D ratio, because that just encourages the little bastards.