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"One day" wishlist

ross

Grizzled Veteran
Jun 9, 2010
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Australia
shuntyard.blogspot.com
This was written up for the guys on SA so excuse the less-than-professional presentation; don't feel like rewriting it. I put this together more to try stir some mod support than anything, but hey if the devs pick it up and run with it, my faith might just be restored yet.

Keep in mind that while some of these could (and should) be implemented as soon as possible, a lot of the suggestions are also very longterm and probably shouldn't even be given consideration for at least six to twelve months - giving time for the more important stuff to happen.

This was written before Classic but is also directed at removing all game modes except Realism and working from there, so bear with me if I mention things Classic added. Anyway, here goes...

- Removable bayonets, no longer an unlock, for all weapons that historically had them (including sniper rifles). Soviet rifles will shoot off zero with the bayonet removed (unless a sniper), the reverse is true for German non-sniper weapons. The Soviets zeroed with bayonets on and seldom removed them; the Germans did the opposite. Sniper rifles on both sides could mount bayonets but if they were ever fixed it probably meant the sniper was pretty terrible; for this reason they ought to be included, but the rifle should shoot off-zero with them fixed.

- No MKb, AVT, MP 40-II as these were all so rare as to never be seen on the front by ordinary troops, if they were even present at all. A later mod to expand the scope of the game beyond Stalingrad may see the MKb return but not the other two. The MP 40-II is kinda ****ty anyway, and the AVT is just ridiculous with a scope (which I am almost certain was not a thing, the Soviets were practical people, not CoD players). The PPD-40, while rare, would occasionally be seen - so this can become the Soviet hero assault unlock. Germans don't get a new SMG, the MP41 was almost never used outside of Feldgendarmerie units. German heroes can still use the PPSh, or the PPD if they prefer.

- 91/30 sniper gets PEM on side mount. Nothing else. If the game is expanded to cover the rest of the war, the top-mount PE would appear on all maps prior to roughly the Don crossing (as well as further north), and the early SVT-type PU would be appearing around the same time as Stalingrad but not on that section of front. The more definitive PU would appear around mid-1943, I would suspect, as the first batches began to arrive in large numbers.

- Sniper scope 'distortion' effect needs to go. It is totally unrealistic, I have personally never seen a scope - WWII or otherwise - bend the image this badly. WWII scopes had slight blurring and chromatic aberration towards the edges. SLIGHT. The image did not 'warp'.

- PPSh uses drum mag only and has selective fire at all times. Stick mags make a return only if the game is expanded to cover the later war period (about mid-1943 on). Select fire is only removed on any 1944-45 maps.

- G41 limited one slot, as they were issued one to a platoon if they were lucky. Perhaps make it a hero unlock. With this comes the option for 2-3 SVT-40s across the entire German side, bringing them roughly into line with the number of SVTs on the Soviet side while maintaining some authenticity. German troops prized captured SVT-40s as they lacked the G41's constant reliability issues and were generally a better rifle. This may require the splitting of 'elite rifleman' into two classes, unless an in-class weapon limit is introduced and the UI overhauled accordingly.

- Germans get a new class (sniper) with the big 4x ZF 39 (definitely) and 6x Ajack (maybe, as unlock) scopes on the K98; marksman class gets a ZF41 like on the G41 and is attached to rifle squads so they actually, you know, be a marksman. Only one sniper class to balance this out a little, Soviets retain two. The Soviets had no counterpart to the ZF41 and there was little distinction at times between a sniper and a marksman, so they can be left alone.

- Squad leaders get bolt actions instead of semis (and sidearms removed, they were not commonly issued to regular infantry NCOs by anyone as far as I know), commander gets SMG only, no semiauto. Brings the number of autos and semis down across the board and is more historically accurate, also removes some of the incentive for important classes to do dumb ****.

- Lack of SMGs for non-assault classes now means that most maps can stay with their current count of assault classes, some will need less, some may need more.

- Soviet Engineer gets M38 carbine, German engineer gets Kar98k. Possibly have SMG as hero unlock, but not the default weapon.

- Sniper now has binocs and can spot artillery coords for the commander, forcing them more into a recon role than trying to play whack-a-mole against hapless riflemen

- MG has binocs but cannot spot artillery (will probably need to be a new weapon, or make the ability to mark **** with them class-specific if it isn't already - was in RO1 but not sure how it works here), and the important part follows...

- ALL binocs can be thrown away, allowing snipers and MGs to find a friend to work with as a spotter and shooter team

- Less AT rifleman classes, that's what engineers are for (seriously there are too many PTRS and they just tear T-34s up - when they aren't being used to snipe infantry's limbs off)

- Mess with Hero loadouts some, I dunno - still brainstorming ideas for this. Will update this point later.

- HHL functions as a magnetic mine (satchel coding) rather than an impact-fused AT grenade. Satchels lose some effectiveness against tanks, perhaps stunning the hell out of the crew or crippling engines/tracks/guns/optics but not actually blowing the tank up. Need to look into effects of 3kg HE against armour of the time, then edit this as necessary

- Remove MG34 saddle, replace with belt feed that makes user slower, less stamina, longer setup time, etc. - not sure about belt here but the saddle is definitely going now and forever. Most players should be using either a 50rd drum or 100rd belt, with preference towards the drum. If anyone here is a Wehrmacht expert and knows how common it was for troops to carry a loose belt, please do let me know

- Cosmetic things like K98 sight hood, etc. random chance based on how commonly they were seen, not unlocks. No more winter trigger guards, seriously what the hell dudes.

- Maybe up assault class spawn grenades to 4, since there are less assault classes to go around and their job kind of entails using grenades a lot

- Add a pair of egg grenades for frontline German soldiers and up - Landsers commonly carried a pair in their pockets. Not sure how to balance this against Soviets - will update as I come up with ideas

- MG42 as HMG emplacement on winter maps (began to appear noticeably on the battlefield by October; AGS got a bunch sent through to units within Stalingrad, confirmed by quartermaster records)

- Less enemy weapons going around - PPSh and SVT unlockable for Germans, along with sniper rifles as Germans did pick them up to fill shortfalls (perhaps make the 91/30 PU a hero unlock for the new marksman class for Germans?) - perhaps nothing except MP40 unlockable for the Soviets. I know people will prefer certain weapons and this may upset them but outside of commonly prized items like PPSh-41s or SVT-40s this doesn't make a lot of sense and looks goofy. It also means the DP28 will actually be used.

- C96 a hero unlock, everyone else with a pistol gets to choose between the P38 and Luger - if the C96 even remains at all. I can believe some officers using them and perhaps vehicle crews, but the average platoon commander? Probably not. Schnellfeuer variant may be removed completely or kept on for tank crews if tanks are made exitable (more on this later)

- G41 with ZF41 is a hero marksman unlock and only available on a random low chance for spawning - or perhaps specific maps, not sure how to work this yet but I want them to be ungodly rare just like real life. Retarded fantasy-land ZF4 and mount is gone forever, never coming back, deal with it.

- Possibility for an unlockable PE/PEM scope for either German sniper or marksman, they were occasionally captured and mounted on K98s by unit armourers to cover equipment shortfalls. Not sure where I want to go with this yet. Less of a priority as this involves model and texture work as well as coding.

- Engineers get a choice of SMG and AT weapons/satchels or a flamethrower, which is a veteran unlock and handled sensibly - only very limited fuel, penalties to movement, and so forth. Flamethrowers were used extensively on the Eastern Front and in Stalingrad particularly, by both sides.

- Ammo points no longer repair tanks. Deal with it. Conversely, scuttling no longer kills you but force-exits your crew, which brings me to my next point...

- Tanks can be exited, but only after unbuttoning from hatch and a lengthy animation which leaves a good chance of being machine-gunned or walloped with HE. This allows commanders to get out and stand on their tank so they can see what's going on over a hill, something that was an absolute lifesaver back in the days of RO1 tanksin', without allowing the entire crew to immediately bail from their tank just before it takes a lethal hit.

- Bandaging system can get out. Bandaging even a minor wound hastily takes a lot longer than currently, and players do not want to sit still for two minutes bandaging only to die anyway. Back to the old RO1 standard - if you're combat ineffective, you're dead. I MAY revise this later but for now, death to bandaging.

- Bleeding is still a thing, despite the lack of bandaging. It will either be minor enough to deal with or you will have just enough time to charge the MG that shot you, hulk out, kill ten guys and die a hero.

- Being hit in the legs will slow you down, being hit badly will force you to drag the leg. Having both legs shot out from under you will force you to crawl. This is short-term to avoid ****tiness that even I get annoyed with but will cause a persistent penalty to movement speed. Being shot in the arm will **** your aim now and forever, being shot in the hand drops your weapon only. You don't need to pick up ammo separately so quit whining you ****ing girly men.

- On the other hand, if you intend to take another weapon off the ground, you WILL need to pick up spare ammo. Perhaps make it so you action key the corpse of whoever and that gets you it, to avoid the fun debacle of retrieving loose ammo from a pile of dropped weapons in RO1.

- Suppression doesn't grey your screen out and blur it, it makes you physically flinch and does blur your vision a little consistent with blinking. DH did suppression okay but perhaps a little too heavy on the flinching.

- Takes longer to shoulder weapons, cycle bolts, reload, etc. - not too long, but also so that a rifleman can't crank out five aimed shots in five seconds, perhaps add a small 'reset' time after bolting. Also look into changing animations, especially for mag checks which are a little silly right now ('why yes, I have a round chambered, my magazine is half-full!'). Pace things realistically, like RO. This also means that players won't be able to let off a shot every half second with a bolt action once they level the piss out of it - perhaps have the current default level as the middle-of-the-road or even upper limit. Stamina is excluded, as Classic makes it unbearable. Stamina isn't the problem, inertia and map design is. It should take several paces to built into, or stop from, a sprint.

- More variance between class levels, heroes now look truly impressive (e.g. for Germans - helmet covers, E-tools stuck through belt; for Soviets - wearing shelter-halves, Hero of the Soviet Union star, Orders of the Red Banner and stuff) - frontline classes and up have randomised rolled sleeves and unbuttoned collars to look a little more soldierly. Want the game to look more like a scene from Stalingrad than the current trip to Uncanny Parade Ground Valley.

- Sniper periscope? Maybe - need to flesh this out more, but would be useful as ****

- SLINGS. ALL OF THE SLINGS. This is more of an "if this mod ever somehow actually happens AND gets some serious support behind it, add this" thing, but I'm sick of seeing games - especially WWII ones - where weapons lack slings. **** you, everyone had a sling, they weren't those fancy quick detach clasp things we have now and so they were very seldom removed. They add visual interest as well as authenticity and I want them back in.

- Removal of relaxed realism settings. They have no place in Red Orchestra and lead to horribly retarded community-dividing ****fights about MY IMMERSION versus MY MINIMAP. If you want the game to hold your hand then I guess you won't want to play this.

- Soviet troops can now cling for dear life onto T-34s as a means of transport. Germans can do the same on their tanks.

- Speaking of which, new vehicle shortlist! PzIV E , PzIII J, StuG III C, Sd.Kfz.251, Sd.Kfz.250, maybe the Sd.Kfz.222/223 scout cars for Germans. KV-1, SU-76, BA-64, Universal Carrier, maybe even the M3A1 halftrack for the Soviets. The PzIII J replaces the PzIV F2 (I think it's an F2? I only really know the Panther and Tiger II well) as the current mainstay of the Germans, because long-barrelled 75mm PzIVs were pretty uncommon. PzIII can get maybe 3-4 rounds APCR so it has some vague hope of hurting a T-34 frontally, and can maybe annoy a KV enough to make it go away.
So yeah, discuss.
 
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Mostly looks good. I think only German hero rifleman should be able to have the svt though.

PPSHs were fairly common for Russians so squad leaders can still have them and Germans can still have mp40 as most ncos I think had mp40s - no pistols for squad leaders anymore though .

There needs to be a machinegun spotter class issued with binoculars and mosin carbine for russians and 98k for germans.

There needs to be a sniper spotter class with binocs, rifle, and pistol, take away pistol from sniper to encourage teamwork between spotter and sniper.

Take away pistols from all hero classes.
 
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Nice! But I still want to ask how would the loadouts work if new weapons would be added we all now that if the Mosin nagant is currently labeled Model 1891/30 that means they want to add in the future the 1938 model for the game. But what would make people stop using only theyr favorite weapon? Because back in Ostfront on specific maps they used only the weapons which they liked like the PPD 40 which realistically wouldve been very rare.

But the AVT and Mkb shouldn't be removed, just modified to be playble only on specific maps and different year periods. I think the producers added the MKb only to easyer modify it to the Sturmgewehr 44. Maybe it didn't saw action on Stalingrad, but now the mappers are comming with more and more maps which aren't in the Stalingrad timeline so why not add those weapons in the specific maps. Like making loadouts depend for the quantity of weapons issued for specific maps. Of course now this feature is useless because we have no new weapons. But the Mosin nagant will definetly be modified also in the Model 1938. So for the future this would be a must have.

Also for the engineer class why not add also rifle grenade launchers? When people start talking about grenade launcers in a realistic shooter the firsth thought comming to mind is Call of duty. But this isn't entirely true the game mechanics are much more elaborate than Call of duty making it a much more profitable ideea.

Also for the tripod machineguns why can't there be added a feature to move it. Like making it very balanced to require 2 people to move it and one to position and fire it to make it very easy to kill the operators. And also make the tripod mgs to have a cooling sequence while firing a large amount of time. Because is ridiculous how people use the Mg now spraying fire without taking count of ammunition or the weapon of overheating.

The rifles definetly need a feature to stop reloading and fire the remaining rounds because now it is very frustrating while getting in a skirmish to reload while the enemy fires at you. You always need to melee or run. So why not make this a feature?
 
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Nice! But I still want to ask how would the loadouts work if new weapons would be added we all now that if the Mosin nagant is currently labeled Model 1891/30 that means they want to add in the future the 1938 model for the game. But what would make people stop using only theyr favorite weapon? Because back in Ostfront on specific maps they used only the weapons which they liked like the PPD 40 which realistically wouldve been very rare.
Make it a hero unlock and/or a separate class.

But the AVT and Mkb shouldn't be removed, just modified to be playble only on specific maps and different year periods. I think the producers added the MKb only to easyer modify it to the Sturmgewehr 44. Maybe it didn't saw action on Stalingrad, but now the mappers are comming with more and more maps which aren't in the Stalingrad timeline so why not add those weapons in the specific maps. Like making loadouts depend for the quantity of weapons issued for specific maps. Of course now this feature is useless because we have no new weapons. But the Mosin nagant will definetly be modified also in the Model 1938. So for the future this would be a must have.
The game is called "Heroes of Stalingrad". As long as it officially remains such, there should be no MKb, AVT, or any other experimental or fairytale weapons.

Also for the engineer class why not add also rifle grenade launchers? When people start talking about grenade launcers in a realistic shooter the firsth thought comming to mind is Call of duty. But this isn't entirely true the game mechanics are much more elaborate than Call of duty making it a much more profitable ideea.
No. We have been over this. The Soviets barely used them and while they were more prolific in German hands, they would not integrate very well with current gameplay.

Also, 'Call of Duty' and 'realistic shooter' do not belong in the same sentence.

Also for the tripod machineguns why can't there be added a feature to move it. Like making it very balanced to require 2 people to move it and one to position and fire it to make it very easy to kill the operators. And also make the tripod mgs to have a cooling sequence while firing a large amount of time. Because is ridiculous how people use the Mg now spraying fire without taking count of ammunition or the weapon of overheating.
No. This would be a pain to implement and would result in people either moving them into stupidly useless places, or moving them to spawn exits.
 
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this post is delusional. none of this will happen.
Thanks for the awesome input. I'm glad people like you are around to contribute ideas on how to improve the game rather than just shrug it off.

One thing though, please point out where I said all of this needs to happen, or will happen. It's a suggestion, not a demands list.

Really, though, great posting.
 
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Holy batman post. "One day" is going to be far, far, away, perhaps never... :(

A lot of it is mouth-watering, but is some of it really necessary? 60-80% of the list will also have to be done by modders. Tank exiting, unfortunately, would seem to require a monumental effort to create, and would almost have to be a modder project due to TWI's position on the vehicles...

Perhaps a reasonable compromise would be for 'scuttled' vehicles to have an alternate animation where the hatches are opened and the crewmen just fade away in place of the current 'explode' animation. Reinforcement cost to your side is halved (tanks should cost more tickets in the first place). An enemy tank recieves an icon notification (+3 Enemy vehicle abandoned) or something like that.

Much less work is involved, and I am willing to just imagine the crew bailing out.

the PPSh drum mag, SL semi-autos, MG saddle drum, enemy weapons, leg wound effects, and weapon handling revisions are all taken care of as of the GOTY update.

Out of this monumental list, I think the following very short list is the most important:


--stamina boost in Classic Mode
--fewer AT Rifleman slots (4 is too many)
--revised MG hipfire system
--new content.
--bolt-action rifle option for Engineers.
 
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I'm almost at the stage where I'll support anything that gets the MkB/AVT/MP40II out of the Classic game. I've only put about a dozen hours into Classic so far but the easy-mode fart cannon (aka. MkB) sits at or just below the top of the German score board in almost every single game; if ever evidence was needed that the thing is destabilizing then we now have it. (There is no need to prove that the thing is anachronistic because there's no evidence that even suggests that the thing was at Stalingrad. Even a picture that was used to help justify its inclusion in the game turned out not to be an MkB at all! Priceless.)
 
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No. We have been over this. The Soviets barely used them and while they were more prolific in German hands, they would not integrate very well with current gameplay.

And how can you determine that they would not mesh very well into current gameplay?


IIRC these grenades required the use of a blank cartridge to fire them, so in order to prep up and fire a grenade you need to:

A: Open the bolt and drop a blank cartridge in
B: get a grenade out of your pack and affix it to the end of the barrel

Also there are multiple variants of launchable grenades, the anti tank variant would not have as big of an explosion radius ( shaped charge ? ) as would regular grenades.
 
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And how can you determine that they would not mesh very well into current gameplay?


IIRC these grenades required the use of a blank cartridge to fire them, so in order to prep up and fire a grenade you need to:

A: Open the bolt and drop a blank cartridge in
B: get a grenade out of your pack and affix it to the end of the barrel

Also there are multiple variants of launchable grenades, the anti tank variant would not have as big of an explosion radius ( shaped charge ? ) as would regular grenades.
The game is too fast for it to be realistic, and too realism-based for it to not become a cheap weapon. Imagine guys just sitting behind the ammo point on FF using them as ghetto mortars to blast the German spawn exit across the map. There are people who either have, or will develop, an eye for these things - they will be putting grenades through windows across the map effortlessly and doing it often, disrupting the risk vs. reward balance of window positions. The thing would have to take 10 seconds to reload at least - if the player can move while doing it, they will simply bounce around the map stopping only to fire, or if they cannot, they will be frustrated by it.

I just cannot see these working well in any realistic game. We already know how cheap they are in twitch shooters, and we like to think 'oh it'll be different', but will it really? My understanding is that firing these weapons on the move was either not possible or a very bad idea, so players will stop to fire only to get cut down the moment they do so, and at the end of the day it would be quicker to just sneak a squad up to the building, toss about five regular grenades in from underneath, and then run up the stairs with SMGs and bayonets.
 
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Hi guys, I also have a couple of things I'd like you to consider to adding to this list, and I know TWI, as most people always say, won't add it, I think it'd make a good addition to the game. (I've actually made an account for the sole purpose of writing this xP)

Now, as said above RO is a game designed to be realistic, etc. and I've thought about two main ideas that I ALWAYS have wanted to suggest on the forums. Also, I am open to criticism, but please don't be a douchbag/troll :p and I hope you guys like my ideas :)

1. A Soviet exclusive class, the Banner Carrier(Yes, I know there is a thread for it already: https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/946832_353160254813162_1754879542_n.jpg) First off, sticking to realism, contrary to what people may think, this was very common in the Red Army, as a man would be handed a Soviet Flag, and told to lead the charge for his comrades. Not only would this be a really interesting idea(at least, I think so :p) But it would be realistic. Now, unlike the thread I linked, the banner WOULD NOT be a mobile spawn. It would probably give a charge bonus to nearby allies(Sorta like the banzai charge) as well as a "buff" similar to the hero lvl buff. Of course, the germans would need some sort of counterpart, as they didn't do this, and if anyone has ideas, go for it :)

2. I have ALWAYS loved hopping in the T-34 and killing fascists ;) Yet, the one thing that has always deterred me from using it is the fact that 1, you can't level it and 2, I am not particularly a fan of the 76 variant that is in the game. So, my suggestion is this, give the tanks some leveling rewards, like the regular weapons. For the Soviets, one upgrade I would LOVE to see is the addition of the T-34/85, as it had so many improvements, such as increased commander capabilities, improved armament, some extra armor, etc. You could do the same for the Germans, allowing their tankers to gain access to the Panzer IV Ausf. G

I'm sure there are more ideas I've had that have escaped me, but I really hope you guys like these ideas, and that TWI actually sees this, and possibly implements it. Cheers! :)
 
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