New rifles for the axis

[Gewehr 43]

What the hell do we need another rifle for? The Kar98 works fine. Besides the Germans made like three bazilliontrillion of the things.

An estimated 12-14 million of them to be a bit more precise.

What the hell do we need the M38 for? The 91/30 works fine. Besides the Soviets made half a bajillion trazillion nonillion billion of them.

^^^
Flawed logic. I'll grant you that the M38 was produced in greater quantity than the 33/40, but the latter still has every right to be in the game. By your logic we'd have nothing other than K98's and 91/30's.

 

[GonzoX]

I tend to agree with both arguments of sort.

Why? Because the M38, 91/30, PU Sniper and M44(Sort of) belong in the game in the historical context. Although I did argue against the inclusion of the M44 before it's implementation.

Some more important weapons that are missing however are the PE sniper, SVT38 and Nagant Revolvers etc.

Now the other side of the coin is that the Germans used the K98k almost exclusevely so adding something that was rarely used serves no real purpose when there are more prolific Russian guns that are not in the game (yet).

You could add a Czech Vz24 (for example) for German side since it was used early war by SS and rear guard troops but what would it offer over K98k that is functionally different? Nothing really. On the Russian side the M38 and M44 does add something different over the 91/30 in fuction as well as historically correct variance depending on time frame. IOW there is a functional reason to choose it over another besides just asthetics.

The shorter K98 used by mountain troops or the FG assault gun the Fallschirmjager used would be uber cool but IMHO they do not belong in this game since neither specialty troops are modelled in ROOST.

It comes down to keeping it historically correct in that the Russians had more choices than the Germans did AFAIK.

Just my opinion.

 

[K.Johansen]

I tend to agree with both arguments of sort.

Why? Because the M38, 91/30, PU Sniper and M44(Sort of) belong in the game in the historical context. Although I did argue against the inclusion of the M44 before it's implementation.

Some more important weapons that are missing however are the PE sniper, SVT38 and Nagant Revolvers etc.

Now the other side of the coin is that the Germans used the K98k almost exclusevely so adding something that was rarely used serves no real purpose when there are more prolific Russian guns that are not in the game (yet).

You could add a Czech Vz24 (for example) for German side since it was used early war by SS and rear guard troops but what would it offer over K98k that is functionally different? Nothing really. On the Russian side the M38 and M44 does add something different over the 91/30 in fuction as well as historically correct variance depending on time frame. IOW there is a functional reason to choose it over another besides just asthetics.

The shorter K98 used by mountain troops or the FG assault gun the Fallschirmjager used would be uber cool but IMHO they do not belong in this game since neither specialty troops are modelled in ROOST.

It comes down to keeping it historically correct in that the Russians had more choices than the Germans did AFAIK.

Just my opinion.

Well gebirgsjager are basically here on Baksanvalley and kaukasus, The raw basic of putting Gebirgsjager models into the game would be having most of them wearing there signature Bergm

 

[azazel998]

You know after reading all of this thread, some of you should compile a list of what specific divisions used some of these rare weapons that were issued in limited numbers. There seems to be plenty of records and after all, most of the RO original maps give what brigade you are etc. So if 1200 of the G41's were issued where did they go etc. Would be interesting to see a compilation such as that if any happen to fit the battlefields and deployed units for those battles. Just a thought....

 

[KrazyKraut]

Umm...duh? What is the gas system? The gas system is a means of turning pressure into a linear stroke to the bolt carrier. There are two ways to do this: direct impingement (the bolt carrier is the piston), and with a piston. Using a piston, there's short-stroke and long-stroke.

Those are the options for how to construct a gas system. It's almost impossible to make a gas system look different from another one.

And as has already been mentioned, the Kalashnikov action is rotary bolt, whereas the STG44 was tilting-bolt. The SKS was actually more similiar to the STG44 than the AK47.

Uhm duh? When I say they look very similar I MEAN VERY SIMILAR. The Garand basically uses the same principle of operation, too, but it looks very different. The AK47 and the StG44 gas system look much more alike.


As for the original topic. I think the fact that Germany used a lot of captured or foreign produced equipment is not properly represented in this game as of yet.

G33/40, vz24, the Radom, the Browning GP, the MG26 and 30, Pz38(t)... so many valid options but NONE are included yet. A G33/40 or vz24 would be a start.

 

[GonzoX]

I agree. They do look very much alike externally. This is where the falacy comes from that the AK is a copy of the STG. Non-gun people basing thier opinions on asthetics rather than technical fact.

 

[KrazyKraut]

Sigh. I'm talking about the gas system looking similar. The gas system is very much internal right.

 

[GonzoX]

All gas systems look similar. Somebody already pointed that out. And most modern assault weapons use some sort of gas system, so what?

 

[KrazyKraut]

You are right. All gas systems are similar. The only difference is attached or not attached to bolt-carrier. That's the only existing difference.

 

[EvilAmericanMan]

Wow what a retarded subject to start an argument.

 

[GonzoX]

Wow what a retarded subject to start an argument.

1)We are discussing, not arguing.

2)If you think the subject matter is "retarded", then please feel free to leave this thread.

Oh, and thanks for dropping by with your possitive input.

 

[Ralfst3r]

They could add Gewehr 41, but it wasn't used a lot cuz it basicly sucked.
The Mauser ones we're worse than the Walther ones i believe.

 

[Zerknautscher]

How about FG-42 or PTRS? No rifles i know but it would be fun to use them I think ^^

 

[EvilAmericanMan]

1)We are discussing, not arguing.

2)If you think the subject matter is "retarded", then please feel free to leave this thread.

Oh, and thanks for dropping by with your possitive input.

Whatever, it's off-topic anyway.

 

[[CiA]Stiletto]

Uhm duh? When I say they look very similar I MEAN VERY SIMILAR. The Garand basically uses the same principle of operation, too, but it looks very different. The AK47 and the StG44 gas system look much more alike.

Flip the barreled action upside down and ignore the oprod/bolt carrier assembly and you get...just another piston type gas system. The oprod is nothing but a funky-shaped bolt carrier.

Seriously. Think about it from the engineering perspective.

 

[GonzoX]

Whatever, it's off-topic anyway.

Then so is your reply.

 

[GonzoX]

How about FG-42 or PTRS? No rifles i know but it would be fun to use them I think ^^

Not even sure FG42 was even used on Russian front. And the game doesn't model Fallschirmjagers anyway.

Even if it did, the Fallschimjagers that were on the EF were used as ground troops and carried the K98k. Or at least that I we can see from any WWII videos (wochenschau) that I have.

 

[KrazyKraut]

Flip the barreled action upside down and ignore the oprod/bolt carrier assembly and you get...just another piston type gas system. The oprod is nothing but a funky-shaped bolt carrier.

Seriously. Think about it from the engineering perspective.

Lol, now guess what I've been studying for 6 semesters now. Look at an M14 or a SVT gas system and then look at an AK or StG44. Look at the piston specifically. If you can't see the difference between AK/StG and M14/SVT and the similaritites between AK and StG then you're blind. Anyone who thinks a piston is a piston should really read some books about that, it's like saying a Diesel is a Diesel no matter what. The AK and StG piston and rod are of almost identical dimensions, with the diffrence being the AK piston is a bit overdimensioned (for a good reason). Now I admit that could be merely a question of intermediate versus full rounds. I can't prove it because I unfortunately don't own these guns, but
I bet the two pistons are even virtually identical as long in touch with the gas before it is vented. They are both short-stroke. M14 and SVT have a long stroke as does the Fedorov. This is not to say kalashnikov necessarily copied anything, but to say all systmes that have the pistons integrated in the bolt carrier are essentially the same is just wrong.

 

[K.Johansen]

Not even sure FG42 was even used on Russian front. And the game doesn't model Fallschirmjagers anyway.

Even if it did, the Fallschimjagers that were on the EF were used as ground troops and carried the K98k. Or at least that I we can see from any WWII videos (wochenschau) that I have.

You could assume that it was as Fallschirmjager made an appearence on the Eastern Front mid-war and very late war. There is a picture of a dead fallschirmjager in the battle of berlin that im sure you've seen, with his FG42 by his side and an iron cross on his chest.

However, you are correct as they aren't even modelled so, there really isnt a point. Also there are members on this board who have made it there personal agenda to make sure the FG42 never makes it into the game, I remember making a thread aboutit a few months ago.