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New camping meta

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FoolishNinja

FoolishNinja

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 19, 2015
1,149
18
#1
I think you guys know what im talking about.
Almost on every HoE server I go, everybody goes to these "known" spots where you can camp and easily kill everything that comes close to you.
2 Berserker are sitting on the frontline blocking all zeds, 2-3 Medics that heal, and 1-2 unimportant perks.
This meta is sooo boring and easy, that you can go for 20mins afk and you would still be alive...
Scrakes or FPs are focusing the players behind the "berserker wall", and this makes them just stand still until they die. Propably a known bug or something.
But please, do something against this camping.
I dont want to stay on the same spot for the whole game, I want at least switch at least once per wave the spot. People instantly move after wave 2 to the known spot and camp there the whole game. If this is intentional, then create the maps smaller and add one spawn point for the zeds and 1 spot to camp the whole match...
Sorry for my english.
 
#2
It's really very sad. I joined into my server last night and saw 5 players wedged into a stairwell on Burning Paris. Top door welded and being ignored by the zeds, bottom door had two zerks wedged into it, and two medics and a firebug sandwiched in behind them. After being told to "come in here and contribute or get kicked," from my own server mind you, I said "If you guys are going to cheese it like this, why bother playing Suicidal? Why not go find a Normal server?" and that's when the wall of flame erupted.

Why do people do stuff like that? Is it enjoyable in any way? Is it just so you could play on a difficulty that you're really not ready for? Do you want achievements THAT badly? I simply don't understand. Somebody please help me understand.
 
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#3
While I do miss camping in one spot all game, I am not a huge fan of the berserker exploit. Like, I do really miss camping the tunnels of West London or the long hallway in offices, but bugged camping sounds kinda dumb. I like the camping where the whole team needs to contribute but if something goes wrong, it all goes south. This is mainly why I love outpost so much.
 
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#4
Indefinitely camping in one spot is mindless, not very fun, and a sign that the game balance is suffering since sitting in one spot without ever having to move is a clear sign the game is too easy, or sitting in one spot is too powerful.

It is more fun if you are holding ground for a period of time, but begin to become overrun so you are forced to move to another location to hold.
 
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#5
It's not mindless, and not everyone thinks its boring. I wish the game had more of a mix with maps that have good camping spots and other maps where you need to move constantly. I can't be the only one who actually enjoys camping. Like, watching one player run around the map 80 times to me is boring when he has to kill the last zeds, but being involved in a 6 man team defending an area is fun to me.
 
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#7
Massive amount of zerker wall is always a source of boredom in both kf1 and 2. If you want to camp, at least stop the zed with a wall of bullet, not meat shield.

For me, tunnel area with 2 or more entrances is the best place to defend and retreat. You stay there until run out of ammo or rushed by sc/fp and then make your escape by focus pushing through the other way. It's a balance between camping and kiting by necessary.
 
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#8
FoolishNinja said:
Scrakes or FPs are focusing the players behind the "berserker wall", and this makes them just stand still until they die. Propably a known bug or something.
But please, do something against this camping.
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be the first time in KF history some exploit made it into common circulation (anyone remember the Patty melee gangbang? :D).

Wouldn't really call it camping meta though. It's exploiting, pure and simple. TWI has done a good job with map design in KF2. Camping is my main gameplay style, I love it, but I also enjoy map design which makes the ideal positions a 2-way defense at best. 1-way defenses just make it too easy.
 
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#9
I think the question to ask here is if people are using this strat just to cheese an achieve, or because it's one of the few reliable ways to clear HoE.

We've had nerfs to ammo, not only to spawns but directly to Commando and Support (albeit reverted). AA12 had a price increase. Ammo is now more expensive. Demo released completely lacklustre without a bugged lvl 25 perk.

Some perks are losing their role specialty and it's turning KF2 into a MMORPG. It's becoming required to bring 2 healers (medic) a tank+offtank (zerker) and 2-3 dps (better hope one is firebug).

If TWI is going to constrain resources and nerf/homogenize several classes into all being good at trash, and just "ok" at big zeds that are the current threat; reliable winning strategies are also going to be constrained.
 
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#10
I played a lot over the weekend, and my observations are similar.

To survive on sui, and even more so on HoE, it seems like you almost HAVE to have at least 1 berserker and at least 1 medic. I don't know if it's berserker right now being like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChWX1wLdXW4 or if the medic spam with AR and being able to repair armor even from 0 is just ridiculously stupid... or to add to that the microwave dealing stupid damage aimed in front of specimens as opposed to at the specimens... but yeah, I'm not enjoying the "must have berserker and medic and better have firebug too" gameplay which is most sui/hoe right now.

And then the corner/room/corridor "exploity" camping just adds to the stupidity. I don't mind camping like KF1 camping with a great team, but this isn't great right now with the berserker wall and medics required.

Balancing team needs to completely remove medic/berserk, fix microwave, and try to beat HoE wave 10 with that and the ammo available, balance wave 10 HoE as needed (to be REALLY difficult but possible), and then add medic and berserker without breaking the game.
 
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#12
They could make some more vents where zeds like crawler or stalker spawn. It could possibly fix these damn spots. But problem is you can camp nearly everywhere...

I think the problem is the Medic and the Berserker. The Medic in KF1 had to aim to heal others, and sometimes it didnt work cuz of the hitbox glitch, so it was very hard to heal someone.
In KF2 you just have to aim near him and the syringe dart hits him always, unless something blocks your way. I suggest to remove the auto-aim heal dart and nerf the heal. Maybe this would make it more interesting to play. I mean you are almost immortal when you have 2-3 Medics in team.
Medics have very strong weapons with high stumble power ( you can stumble everything except FP and Sc with the AR), very high movement speed, over 170 armor, 120 health and decent damage.
But well, there are a lot of balance issues atm (*cough* microwave gun *cough*)
 
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#13
JoelFig said:
I think the major problem is in how Zeds spawn and flow. These spots simply need more entrances/pathways so that zeds don't funnel as much. We need to be getting swarmed, not conga-lined.
Click to expand...

Sprinting zeds should be able to push zeds that aren't sprinting behind them or force other zeds around them to start sprinting.
 
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#14
Coffee009 said:
It's not mindless, and not everyone thinks its boring. I wish the game had more of a mix with maps that have good camping spots and other maps where you need to move constantly. I can't be the only one who actually enjoys camping. Like, watching one player run around the map 80 times to me is boring when he has to kill the last zeds, but being involved in a 6 man team defending an area is fun to me.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I think of it too. Kiting is utterly boring to me. I always left kf1 matches where I saw a bunch of zerks kiting.

But I think the OP is right that the wall needs addressing.
 
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#16
I can hear you Foolish (Beb* here, we had some games together if you recall).

I feel that HoE has been incredibly easy since the new zerk, and the recipe is always the same as you said: 2-zerk wall, and here we go. At the usual same spots. Add to this the one-click win button being a demo with Nuke (I racked up 1100 kills last time by lazily hitting M1 button during zed times), and you get a pretty boring (to me) meta.

Before, entering a game on HoE was a pretty tense expercience, you really had to be on your toes and you knew that everything could go to hell pretty quickly.

Now, you just have a little bit of adrenalin during the 3 or 4 first waves (before the SCs come in and everyone decides to cover in fear behind the zerk wall), but even if you die during those waves, you'll have no penalties as the zerks will dosh you up so you can buy your top tier weapons anyway.

Then the only spikes of adrenalin you have is when a zerk dies or if a FP comes through the wall, which generally lead to a wipe because the team is all packed together.

This is making me lose interest in the game, and I'm sad about it.

Last time I had a game without any zerk and it was KF2 HoE again, very tense and very hard where you have to take care of your surroundings, help each other, etc... It was great. And the team won, which was even better.

I know, I know, some could say "If you don't like camping, then don't", and I'm 100% okay with it, it's just that generally speaking, the other 5 folks with me have the "get behind zerk wall to win" reflex and it's very hard to talk them out of it, I mean, why chose the hard way?

I recently played a match of KF1 on HoE and while it was still camping, it was way more tense, maybe because of the welding mecanism and the lower movement speed...(though I understand that movement speed is a key element and will certainly not be tuned in KF2)

I'm not sure what could make camping in KF2 less boring... Some ideas that comes to my mind;
- introduce a "durability" mecanism to zerk weapons where they would be damaged? I mean, slashing through a lot of zeds should dampen a blade efficiency right? Especially when hitting metal for some weapon? I think you should have your weapon repaired as a zerk. Still maybe have more specialized melee weapon against certain type of zerks? Now it's pretty much a no-brainer: grab this claymore and hit everything that moves.

- remove the armor healing capacity at full health for the medic?

- reduce the huge +100hp of the zerk? Now, having +100hp for a zerk seems normal to be and reduce it would make the zerk less zerk. So maybe reduce the amount of damage reduction?

- reduce the power of the nuke ability of the demo? When I read the poisoning part, I thought it was like the poisoning of the medic which was ridiculous. But I saw it in action. Huge fart gas that almost instakill everything, has a huge radius if using C4/RPG AND goes through the walls, floor and ceiling? Meh.
 
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#19
(playing devil's advocate here)
Has anyone considered this to be a zed issue instead of a perk balance issue?
Maybe zeds are too predictable/stupid or they are too weak to kill anyone quickly. Why don't Husks solve this problem, they seemed to be well equipped to do so? How about the introduction of a one hit kill attack from a zed (Husk) on HoE? This would be the bane of every Berserker.
 
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#20
RUSTIK said:
(playing devil's advocate here)
Has anyone considered this to be a zed issue instead of a perk balance issue?
Maybe zeds are too predictable/stupid or they are too weak to kill anyone quickly. Why don't Husks solve this problem, they seemed to be well equipped to do so? How about the introduction of a one hit kill attack from a zed (Husk) on HoE? This would be the bane of every Berserker.
Click to expand...

The husk and crawlers are zerkers nightmare.
But now you can stumble the husk while shooting what makes him useless since medics, mandos and all other T3-T4 weapons can stumble him.
Also we need, if they wont fix the perks, a new zed that can counter the camping.
Like a long range guy like husk but with more AoE, or a FP kind of guy that can kick the players out of the spot.
 
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