Ju-87 Stuka Siren

[XIII]

Add a Ju-987 "Stuka" strike for the German offensive maps. You do not need the physical airplane, just the siren noise as the Stuka is diving and of course the bombs exploding. The German Army pioneered the combined arms tactics and the Stuka played a siginificant role in smashing the Soviet defense.

The game is great!!!

 

[Shadrach]

I believe this us up to the map designer, would be quite easy (for someone in the know) to add the Stuka sound for instance before arty lands, instead of normal sounds. Also it could be used for random arty, although it is just that - random

But why just the Stuka, why always the germans, the Soviets were just as much masters of combined arms in the later parts of the war. I would love the sound of the IL2 coming in for a bomb drop over fascist lines

I doubt we will see any changes in the stock maps, but maybe in a custom, who knows?

-S

 

[Demjansk]

I forget which map it is, but there's one of the custom maps out there that has a flight of aircraft passing over shortly before a random artillery strike that's obviously meant to simulate a bombing run. It's a cool effect.

 

[Maphisto86]

Personally I think models of several kinds of fighters, strike aircraft and transport planes would be a welcome addition for mappers to use. We have seen some aircraft on Red Orchestra maps both Combined Arms and Ostfront. It would be neat eye candy to see a gaggle IL-2 Sturmovik's fly toward a target in the distance. Or more landed or crashed plane models for maps...

 

[Oldih]

Or more landed or crashed plane models for maps...

There's already some of them present E.G. in Odessa and Rakowice IIRC. Maybe some other maps aswell.

Unless you intent to turn every map into aircraft graveyard...

 

[LogisticEarth]

The problem with making them equivilant to arty strikes is that, even though they were starting to develop close-air-support during the war, I don't believe they ever had the ability for a sergent to call in on a radio and recieve an immediate airstrike.

So replacing the arty strikes with aircraft = gamey and non-historical
But adding in flights of airstrikes and simulated "random" arty strikes = Realistic and better

 

[Wiglaf]

Stukas had sirens only in 1940 France campaing.
Removed later on as enemy got it's act together and actually formed some AA, why alert enemy of yuor presence before killing him.

 

[Maphisto86]

There's already some of them present E.G. in Odessa and Rakowice IIRC. Maybe some other maps aswell.

Unless you intent to turn every map into aircraft graveyard...

Naw I wouldn't want to do that! I did notice crashed aircraft on those maps but what I meant to say was different types of crashed aircraft then the ones we already have. Not a big deal though just dreaming on my part. I pay attention to useless details like that.

The problem with making them equivilant to arty strikes is that, even though they were starting to develop close-air-support during the war, I don't believe they ever had the ability for a sergent to call in on a radio and recieve an immediate airstrike.

So replacing the arty strikes with aircraft = gamey and non-historical
But adding in flights of airstrikes and simulated "random" arty strikes = Realistic and better

I don't mean to nitpick but I believe the western allies where able to call in air strikes later in the war through radio as well as aircraft being on standing patrols called "the cab rank". Also during the early blitzkrieg successes in Europe, the German army often had a Luftwaffe intermediary that could forward targets to his command.

The More You Know...

 

[dogbadger]

I liked this idea as a warning to russ players pushing too far forward before they got bombed,and i wanted to put it in a ostfront map however
im busy with something else now and......

Stukas had sirens only in 1940 France campaing.
Removed later on as enemy got it's act together and actually formed some AA, why alert enemy of yuor presence before killing him.

..if this is true it would be inappropriate anyway for the eastern front.

 

[LogisticEarth]

I don't mean to nitpick but I believe the western allies where able to call in air strikes later in the war through radio as well as aircraft being on standing patrols called "the cab rank". Also during the early blitzkrieg successes in Europe, the German army often had a Luftwaffe intermediary that could forward targets to his command.

The More You Know...

But at what command level were these availible? Remember that the SL in game only represents a NCO. I don't doubt there was co-ordination between ground and air forces on a fairly dynamic basis, but I don't think that your average seargent would have access to on-point air strikes like this. Do you have any info?

 

[Wiglaf]

This is still ww2. Only western allies had advanced electronics enough to have sufficient number of radios required for real air-land coordiantion on battlefield.

More like scout platoon would send a runner to company HQ that would phone to battalion that would send it to regiment that would send it to army that would send it to army. Which would send liaison officer to local air wing to says that there is diesel engine sounds somewhere in this sector.

Then they would send a recon plane which if it saw anything would result in CAS wing somewhere in the area. Maybe they would then hit the tanks or their supply truck 20km behind them.



Ok, ok so the point is that they are operational weapon. Anyone that would have strong enough radio would be regimental field opserver. Still it's realistic to have them on front line. Only real modeling of them would be much like radom arty, but in that case we would as likely see FW190 or Yaks rather than Stukas or ILs in heavy bom configuration.
Simply Fighter pilots taking pot shots whit their mg's at tanks to avoid boredom.

Any heavy bombing missions would be much like preplanned arty. Against fixed fortification line or something along those lines.

 

[Grobut]

There's already some of them present E.G. in Odessa and Rakowice IIRC. Maybe some other maps aswell.

Unless you intent to turn every map into aircraft graveyard...

We dont really need plane graveyards, well.. maybe one could be cool, but it would be nice to see some Russian planes, all we have now is the JU-52, BF-109 and JU-87, why not spice it up a bit and add a MIG-3, YAK-9, IL-2, or PE-2?

The problem with making them equivilant to arty strikes is that, even though they were starting to develop close-air-support during the war, I don't believe they ever had the ability for a sergent to call in on a radio and recieve an immediate airstrike.

So replacing the arty strikes with aircraft = gamey and non-historical
But adding in flights of airstrikes and simulated "random" arty strikes = Realistic and better

Indeed, neither the Germans nor the Russians had that kind of abillity, airstrikes could be called, but it took planning and time, it is nothing that could possibly happen within the time of a round of RO.

Even "random airstrikes" are probably a bad idea.. aircraft did not drop small neat packages like arty shells, usually on the Eastern front, we are talking a minimum of 2x 50kg bombs, but 2x 100kg, 1 or 2x 250kg and 1x 500kg would be the norm (and thats per aircraft, and only Jabo's and air-to ground planes, bombers carry much more), thouse are very big booms within the size of a RO map, even the largest of them, so done realistically, they would be extremely annoying!

Stukas had sirens only in 1940 France campaing.
Removed later on as enemy got it's act together and actually formed some AA, why alert enemy of yuor presence before killing him.

That's news to me, got a source?

I don't mean to nitpick but I believe the western allies where able to call in air strikes later in the war through radio as well as aircraft being on standing patrols called "the cab rank". Also during the early blitzkrieg successes in Europe, the German army often had a Luftwaffe intermediary that could forward targets to his command.

The More You Know...

It is definately true that the Yanks had the best abillities, but still, this is nothing that would take place within the timescale of an arty strike (and thats what it'd have to be if it was to be usefull in RO), it took time, a round of RO will probably have started and ended before the planes could recive the order and start heading twords the location.. even today an insta airstrike (as in, within minutes) is practically impossible unless you have planes circling the area allready.

 

[Maphisto86]

But at what command level were these availible? Remember that the SL in game only represents a NCO. I don't doubt there was co-ordination between ground and air forces on a fairly dynamic basis, but I don't think that your average seargent would have access to on-point air strikes like this. Do you have any info?

You guys are probably right about that. It would take awhile for aircraft to take off and arrive at the target, though Iv'e always been interested in the idea of standing patrols during WWII. Also, Im sure I read it was officers with the mechanized infantry and panzer groups in the Heer who had Luftwaffe intermediaries. I don't about later in the war, I'll have to check that out. Anyway as for the game goes I still think it would be neat to have more aircraft models besides the handful we have now. As for actual combat, artillery and the awesome new mortars the guys at Carpathian Crosses do just nicely.

 

[Grobut]

Planes could still be used for something cool, just not on the scale of calling in an airstrike at will.

They could be triggered events designed to thin out enemy ranks at easilly defendable locations, used to avoid stalemates, you could also open a map with an air raid, forcing the defending team to seek shelter whilst the attacks get a chance to make a move on the first objective, there are posibillities.