Hell on Earth players feedback

[Kicked]

The hell difficulty definitely does not need to be harder. I have every hell achievement but I find the difficulty to be completely unrealistic without camping, which is cheesy, but I do not mind it because I think it makes for good strategy and teamwork. If the team cannot camp and hold their ground then they will probably fail, and most teams are terrible at this so that is why the success rate is so low.

KF1 is harder because you cannot sprint, but this is pretty stupid reason and it makes the game not as fast paced as KF2.

 

[2Clicks]

The hell difficulty definitely does not need to be harder. I have every hell achievement but I find the difficulty to be completely unrealistic without camping, which is cheesy, but I do not mind it because I think it makes for good strategy and teamwork. If the team cannot camp and hold their ground then they will probably fail, and most teams are terrible at this so that is why the success rate is so low.

KF1 is harder because you cannot sprint, but this is pretty stupid reason and it makes the game not as fast paced as KF2.

All of above are fair points. Kiting/camping strategies though do ofc depend on the map and the ability of the players to commit critical damage between raging biggies, while performing trash control and staying alive, while kiting. Its entirely possible to do these things on say Paris and, Outpost and Biolabs for instance. Though the latter two being harder. Evac also to some degree. The cramped/in-yr-face spawning is probably the biggest hurdle to overcome. Though success depends on alot of factors but as a player base we need to ask ourselves do we want guaranteed wins, some wins where some of the team is down, some wins where most of the team is down, or alot of fails on HoE!?

I dont think everyone will be happy with the answer! I personally dont mind losing if the team gave their all and we didnt lose because of some stupid mistake or gamey spawn crap!

Personally I find the challenge gratifying on HoE but atm it just means for the most part that teams on HoE need certain perks if we say all players are of the same level in experience and other factors are "favourable." Also the speed on HoE usually doesnt allow for a good amount of the perks to kite effectively unless the medic is there.

Its certainly better having multiple biggies spawn and not having the auto-rage. And while the albino crawler spawn and stuff needs some tweaking I find Im playing HoE almost exclusively now. Whereas up until the GS update I was only tending to play it if I didnt mind losing.

 

[Pharrahnox]

I think HoE is getting harder now which is a step in the right direction. When I first tried the beta, the changes were surprising and made it so that I was taking a fair bit of damage. But now that I've gotten used to it, it's not that hard again. Kiting on some maps is incredibly easy even with a semi-coordinated team, such as Burning Paris, Outpost, Hostile Grounds and Evacuation Point, but others like Biotics Lab and Containment Station you just wouldn't bother unless you were getting overrun.

I don't think the gas crawlers add to the difficulty much, and especially not in the right way. They're just an annoyance. The dodging and blocking of the zeds definitely makes the zeds feel smarter and requires a bit of effort to actually kill them now (for the trash that is). Big zeds blocking sometimes makes it harder, and sometimes makes it easier. Sometimes they'll block when you have a good opportunity to kill them, and other times they'll block and give you time to reload or backpedal.

I find that the spawn rate is way too low now. There are significant stretches of time where no one sees any zeds, and it makes it kind of boring and definitely makes it much easier.

I can understand that a lot of people think HoE is in a good place now. I think it's getting closer to what I would expect from it, but still has a way to go. However, I still think that HoE shouldn't be changed and instead just have another difficulty added on top, because HoE is already a significant step up from Suicidal. I know that some people think it should just be done with mods, but I think there should be official support for a harder difficulty, especially since I haven't actually seen any balanced mods that make it harder yet. HL2 zeds is quite difficult, but not in a fair way.

And again, I don't think the success rate is actually all that low when you consider only the teams that are actually ready for HoE.

 

[Chyros]

I'd like even more challenge. Ideally, I want to have to drop down to suicidal. I think TWI are taking the game in the right direction though, with special, tougher versions of zeds and more powerful AI like evading and blocking. That needs to be expanded upon a fair bit more, and then I think it'll be perfect. I'll also give much more variety to the game, particularly if the zed variations were random and not necessarily exclusive to just one zed type.

 

[Bane5]

If we have a split in folks who want more challenge and those who want HoE difficulty to remain the same, perhaps its time for a 5th difficulty and leave HoE mostly the same.

Call it something like:

"Hell Itself"
"Apocalyptic"
"Cataclysmic"

 

[2Clicks]

If we have a split in folks who want more challenge and those who want HoE difficulty to remain the same, perhaps its time for a 5th difficulty and leave HoE mostly the same.

Call it something like:

"Hell Itself"
"Apocalyptic"
"Cataclysmic"

Sounds like too much hard work for the devs to balance an extra difficulty level.

Its more likely that the devs will encourage modders to create or bring over (from KF1) mods that made the game harder and more gratifying to play once youve played the game to its death! I played mod for 66% of my total time on KF1. Only spent 33% of my time on vanilla KF and thats what I expect will happen in ayear or two down the line. Plus do you really want perkmap players, or low levels to have an extra difficulty to avoid when selecting their games?

 

[DeadPlayer123]

For me HOE is fine right now, I could agree with some more challange, but right now my bigest complains are only with the bosses :

Patriarc : He sometimes just shoot the rockets with out any warning or talk always killing who is in his aim, I think its probably an bug, the patriarc should talk something like "one in the pipe" and shoot 1 sec after that giving some time for players to hide.

Hans: Dodge is stupid, I really dont like it. Also the infinite rage is bad because there is no counter to it, this rage should stop after he hits some player or when some player parry his atack.

Also the damage should be the same for any number of players, if an FP hit take 30 life when playing with 1 player it should take the same life for 6 players, the HP should be bigger only, as in KF1.

 

[zoro]

they spawn too slow on some maps i just played paris 50 min game six players most time i stay and do nothing if im lucky some lost zed jump on my aim and i kill it that too bad when the team skilled many of the maps just boring to death :/

 

[NED79]

Our group finds that HOE is not very challenging on most maps. That's why we run the (white listed) max-mutator mod on our servers. One server is set to 120 zeds and the other is set to 360. Makes the game/maps more intense.

 

[infntnub]

Our group finds that HOE is not very challenging on most maps. That's why we run the (white listed) max-mutator mod on our servers. One server is set to 120 zeds and the other is set to 360. Makes the game/maps more intense.

That mut makes pretty much any difficulty fun - I do the same for SUI.

I just don't typically run it as high as you have it set; on more open maps it crushes my FPS something awful lol.

 

[Buzzkillinton]

The difficulty isnt much of a linear scale. waves 1-4, fine. wave 5-6, OK. wave 7, holy crap lets have a garage sale on FPs and SCs. wave 9, crank that wave 7 up to 11! HOE is just about impossible without a beserker...which is cool cause its a super fun class, but for pug groups, if you dont have someone who can bottle up the big zeds they just run roughshod over the group.

And ammo. Need to balance the difficulty based on zeds and game mechanics, not artificial lack of ammo and money.

Low level perks playin in HOE...needs to be stopped. low level being below 20.

somehow players joining a game in progress need to be better equipped or some way to fund them. people joining HOE games after wave 2 just completely screws the team over because they cant contribute with starting guns effectively. and my god, a player joining a game after wave 5 is just stupid, but it happens ALL THE TIME. if more than 1 player joins after wave 4 or 5, thats pretty much a guaranteed wipe, which ruins the game for the other players.

oh...and ban firebugs from HOE.

 

[RawrUK]

oh...and ban firebugs from HOE.

There are good Firebugs and bad Firebugs. The good Firebugs will master crowd control behind the big zeds in choke points like no other perk can. The bad Firebugs, which I will agree are in the majority, will rage flocks of Scrakes with poorly placed groundfires and overuse of the Flamethrower.

I don't believe there are any inappropriate perks for HoE, I just think there are a lot of people who don't know how to play their perk, whether that's Firebug, Sharpshooter, Demolitionist or anything else. In fact, I'd go as far to say that I think I see as many poorly played Demolitionists as I do Firebugs.

YMMV.

 

[Gladius]

We're trying to collect as much feedback from the HOE guys as we can so I'd like to start this thread on it. What do you guys want that your not getting?

I really don't like that Fleshpounds now randomly spwan enraged.

I understand that this is supposed to be some increse of difficulty in multiplayer games consisting of up to six players. But for solo players that enjoy the holding a spot playstyle, this is an unfair and annoying event, that makes the base game undesirable, without the „Controlled Difficulty Muatator“, that disables that autorage feature.

My suggestion is to make the autorage a server sided setting and/or release a whitelisted mutator to switch it on/off.

 

[The_Pharoah]

here's my two cents worth:

From what you've said, most players aren't making it to the boss round. And yet there's quite a few suggestions on here to 'make it more difficult'. Doesn't make sense.

What I like about current HOE:
1. LOTS of zeds
2. lots of big zeds on higher levels

What I don't like about current HOE is the economy - we have lots more zeds and yet we still start with the same weapons, ammo and dosh as with normal. Just because we get more dosh does NOT mean we will all just skate through. So, give us more dosh so that we can get to the Tier 4 weapons earlier.

So overall, my suggestions:

1. throw in more zeds (just space out the waves)
2. inc the amount of dosh we can earn
3. start us on full ammo or provide more ammo cans
4. fix the Survival perk so that we get the same weapons bonuses that specific perks get.
5. allow us to carry more weight (up to 20) and more ammo eg. I should be able to carry the RPG, M79 and HX12 with a movement penalty.

I'll be honest, I don't actually like the Boss levels. I know thats the 'end game' but I'd prefer to go up to level 13 or something in lieu of fighting a boss. There's nothing i love more than a 10 level HOE game where, after each match, you're like 'OMG that was intense!!!'.

 

[Buzzkillinton]

Please consider enabling FRIENDLY FIRE on HoE. That would massively increase the difficulty with just a simple boolean as well as making team coordination an essential element for survival.

nope.

 

[Buzzkillinton]

all this talk about zerkwalling. have over 500hrs played, and i have never once observed this zerkwalling you people are describing.

 

[Buzzkillinton]

here's my two cents worth:

From what you've said, most players aren't making it to the boss round. And yet there's quite a few suggestions on here to 'make it more difficult'. Doesn't make sense.

What I like about current HOE:
1. LOTS of zeds
2. lots of big zeds on higher levels

What I don't like about current HOE is the economy - we have lots more zeds and yet we still start with the same weapons, ammo and dosh as with normal. Just because we get more dosh does NOT mean we will all just skate through. So, give us more dosh so that we can get to the Tier 4 weapons earlier.

So overall, my suggestions:

1. throw in more zeds (just space out the waves)
2. inc the amount of dosh we can earn
3. start us on full ammo or provide more ammo cans
4. fix the Survival perk so that we get the same weapons bonuses that specific perks get.
5. allow us to carry more weight (up to 20) and more ammo eg. I should be able to carry the RPG, M79 and HX12 with a movement penalty.

I'll be honest, I don't actually like the Boss levels. I know thats the 'end game' but I'd prefer to go up to level 13 or something in lieu of fighting a boss. There's nothing i love more than a 10 level HOE game where, after each match, you're like 'OMG that was intense!!!'.

agreed, and i've voiced that several times. the difficulty should come from mob mechanics and spawns, not from artificial lack of ammo/dosh.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

There are good Firebugs and bad Firebugs. The good Firebugs will master crowd control behind the big zeds in choke points like no other perk can. The bad Firebugs, which I will agree are in the majority, will rage flocks of Scrakes with poorly placed groundfires and overuse of the Flamethrower.

I don't believe there are any inappropriate perks for HoE, I just think there are a lot of people who don't know how to play their perk, whether that's Firebug, Sharpshooter, Demolitionist or anything else. In fact, I'd go as far to say that I think I see as many poorly played Demolitionists as I do Firebugs.

YMMV.

I'm one of the good Pyros since I only focus on trash even when there's big stuff around me. Trash is more likely to kill you because they can body block for the big guys. However, I get cringy when I see a Pyro with the MWG. If you see a Pyro with one of those, there's a 80% chance he's gonna use it on a big zed during the middle of the wave, which isn't good. Had one Pyro yesterday on Nuke who kept raging all the scrakes. Luckily, I was a zerk with the Evis so I could kill them quick. We told her to quit doing it, and she just effectively said "**** you I do what I want".

Also, I agree with the demo playstyle. I often question why some demos don't get an RPG. That weapon is essentially vital in the last waves when you're dealing with 3 fleshpounds and 5 scrakes at a time. Some grab C4, which is fine if you can use it effectively (personally I don't use it til the boss wave). But as far as I see it, if you don't get an RPG when you have the chance, you're hurting not only yourself, but the team's chances of surviving.