Gunslinger single vs dual handguns

[GUANTANAMO]

Hi guys,

I love playing KF2 and I love playing gunslinger.
But in my opinion, the cost/benefit ratio regarding single vs dual handguns is not right atm. Especially in online games with 6 players (and up to 200 Zeds) and high difficulty.

1. the ammunition supply remains the same
2. you occupy double the weight of dual handguns at the same time
3. the reload time is longer for dual handguns
4. additional weight for upgrading dual handguns is ludacris

I've been experimenting a lot with different combinations lately. And at the current state of the game, I'm of the opinion that dual handguns aren't paying off at all.

I am currently equipping myself as follows (damage according to official KF 2 Wiki):

9mm level 5 - weight 0 - damage x2 - 90 ammo
1911 level 4 - Weight 4 - damage x2 - 144 ammo
Desert eagle level 2 - weight 4 - damage x1,4 - 112 ammo
AF2011 no upgrade - Weight 3 - standard damage - 304 ammo
.500 Magnum level 1 - Weight 4 - damage x1,15 - 105 ammo

With dual handguns, for example, you could only equip dual .500 magnums, dual desert eagle, and dual 1911s, and have only 1 weight left. Which you can't use for a dual perk weapon anymore, because you need at least 2 free points. And I‘m already trying to compensate the imbalance here.

On a full server with a high degree of difficulty and really without spray and prey mentality, there are still situations in which I almost run out of ammo even with all single handgun equipment, despite the comparatively high ammo count. Especially when some players die during the wave.

That brings me to the next, huge advantage, if you equip yourself like this: every ammo pack you pick up fills up every weapon at the same time (I think with 2 "magazines"). So you get significantly more ammo and survivability back than with dual handguns.

The extremely fast weapon change with the gunslinger is also very advantageous with this playstyle.

I think there would be many ways to get a better balance here.
I'm not saying that I have a great suggestion for that. But I think it makes perfect sense to make a balance change. Nevertheless, here are a few modest proposals:

- dual handguns = dual ammo
One could argue that it would make sense to reduce this ratio for stronger weapons like the .500 magnums, e.g. to 1.5 times the quantity. But at an additional weight of +3, I would find it reasonable to get twice the amount.

- reduce additional weight of dual handguns
Maybe even to +0. Although I'm thinking that a universal adjustment to +1 is making perfect sense. If you look at the greater advantage of faster damage output vs longer reload time.

- cut the additional weight for the 9mm entirely.

- reduce or eliminate the additional weight for IMPROVEMENTS of dual handguns. I mean seriously... it is not even possible to equip maxed out dual desert eagles and maxed out .500s at the moment. That would be 16/15 weight at the moment.

I think it is certainly possible to implement a reasonable combination of these proposals.

Many thanks in advance for your input.

And: Tripwire - you're the ****in best!

 

[s5yn3t]

And then there's me who happily runs with near maxed out 1911, with med pistol, and dualies of deagle and magnums... And yet i still have enough ammo left at the end of the wave, that i would be able to survive ~half the wave with.

Maybe kill more efficiently, eh?

I honestly don't know, on one hand the slinger can run with so many weapons that ammo is not even an issue.. The issue only comes when players decide to upgrade their dual pistols without investing into a main pistol for trash killing, then ammo becomes an issue.

Tho from what i heard from data mining, the expanded upgrade system might increase the ammo pool for the upgraded weapon (which would make sense for the weight penalty we currently receive)

Also as you mention that you cant run fully upgraded deagle and magnum at the same time because of weight 16/15..... At some point you could bypass the weight limit, thanks to a bug that i did report on and how to consistently replicate it.
​​​​​​So oops, you were too late on enjoying that short time of freedom xD

 

[Azukki]

With dual handguns, for example, you could only equip dual .500 magnums, dual desert eagle, and dual 1911s, and have only 1 weight left.

Perfect for a medpistol, which is perfect for backup ammo for trash zed heads, and backup ranged healing if the medic's lacking.
That's a fine loadout, and it provides adequate total ammo, if you get a fair amount of headshots, and fairly well match the weapon you use to the target you're shooting, to not waste much damage on overkill.

I agree that the balance is a bit off between singles and duals, but I don't think that means duals need a huge benefit, but rather, they're about where they need to be, and perhaps singles could use a little more real detriment. Currently, duals are still often preferable to me, but a huge reason why they are is actually just because it's bloody obnoxious to have 4+ different weapons to cycle through on the same item slot. "2,2,2,2,2, oops too many 2,2,2, okay, finally have what I want out".

Upgrades, yeah, they frequently disappoint in general, and pistols compound that issue with upgrades being proportionately heavy and expensive compared to single pistols' weight and price, and truly extra heavy for dual pistols. Upgrades increasing max ammo could help in general, and massively for pistol upgrades.

 

[Aleflippy]

I honestly switch between both styles quite often. Singles are great to save some money, and I also aim better with it. It's also quicker to reload. And when upgraded... You can easily use it as a primary weapon!

Now is there any situation where it is truly better than using akimbo? I don't think so... It's honestly just the joy of mixing stuff up.

 

[Tony]

The only dual pistol that has ammo problem is 9mil, it needs as much ammo cap as med pistol. All other guns feel just fine. I usually use 2 magnums, 2 deagles and med pistol, and the only times I had ammo problem were when I didn't have money to buy >50% ammo. My opinion is doubling ammo would discourage accuracy, and disbalance things. I mean, right now GS is 1.5 times better than sharp. With double ammo he is going to be 2 times better
That would make sense to reduce double gun weight by 1 unit though. Because, big part of that weight is supposed to be ammo, but ammo cap remains the same...

 

[makeitgood]

i agree the upgrade carry weight is too much. i think everything else is okay