guns a bit too accurate

[Quenaelin]

Exactly! The 7.62x25mm is a high velocity round and is almost in the realm of intermediate rifle cartrige. In fact, it compares to about a .357magnum round.

I love these self appointed gun experts who post photos of a Tokarev round next to a parabellum 9x19 round as if they were the same. They are NOT.

It seems that some people here seem to have never fired a gun in their lives and get all their "facts" from web pages LOL.

The 9x19 is nowhere near the Tokarev round at ranges out to 100yards. Not even close. At 100yards I would pick a PPSH over an MP40 any day for that very reason.

I am glad that there are people who knows about guns. These are different rounds that wasn't my point, my point was that their accuracy is pretty much same until bullet starts to drop. Every special forces around world uses H&K MP5 which is quite accurate SMG and it uses 9x19 Parabellum round. I was refering only accuracy not any other values of these bullets. I have to admit that I was wrong about bullet drop which isn't same until 200m, 7,62x25 is more accurate in longer distances that 9x19 Parabellum. Accuracy remains same with these bullets only about 50 meters or less.

 

[Crim]

Exactly! The 7.62x25mm is a high velocity round and is almost in the realm of intermediate rifle cartrige. In fact, it compares to about a .357magnum round.

I love these self appointed gun experts who post photos of a Tokarev round next to a parabellum 9x19 round as if they were the same. They are NOT.

It seems that some people here seem to have never fired a gun in their lives and get all their "facts" from web pages LOL.

The 9x19 is nowhere near the Tokarev round at ranges out to 100yards. Not even close. At 100yards I would pick a PPSH over an MP40 any day for that very reason.

This post is hilarious.

7.62x25 Tokarev fired out of a handgun = Average muzzle velocity of 430 m/s.

7.62x39 fired out of a rifle such as an AK-47 = Average muzzle velocity of 710 m/s.

By that logic, I imagine you consider the gun on the Panzer III F1 'almost' as good as the Tiger's.

They are not comparable in the least. "Pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles".

A 9x19 bullet, such as fired by the MP40, has the average muzzle velocity of 380 m/s. It's also larger. As there is no body armor in this game, the penetration qualities of the 7.62x25 round will count against it: a wound channel will be tight and thin, dealing little damage to any tissue which is not in the direct path of the bullet.

By the way, a 'heavy' .357 magnum bullet has a muzzle velocity of 332 m/s. The lighter ones have a muzzle velocity of around 442 m/s.

Please don't post like you know what you're talking about unless you actually know what you're talking about.

 

[Tairos]

I have no understanding of the balistics, but it is very obvious that the defending team has almost no advantage to speak of, when it should be huge. Players are picked off in fortified positions WAY too easily, and one way or another, this must be fixed.

 

[Crim]

It's all just a matter of the ranges seen in game. At less than 100 meters, yeah, you'll get picked off easy as hell. At two hundred or above (and two hundred was the average range for an infantry engagement during WWII; this is part of the reason most of the world switched to smaller rifle cartridges) it becomes a little bit more realistic. Berezina is a pretty good example of the ranges of a WWII engagement, and there, the defenders have a distinct advantage.

The guns are good as-is. The only thing I wouldn't care about being implemented is maybe some increased sway effects; possibly shivering in cold weather, stuff like that. Resting your rifle, of course, is highly encouraged.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

two good points by crim in 1 page .. the first time he owned some half arsed gun nut (always so much fun eh?) and the second one .. shivering in the cold!!! that would be nice to see all those people who camp in one area for 10minutes start shivering and thier aim showing that they were shivering..

 

[GonzoX]

This post is hilarious.

7.62x25 Tokarev fired out of a handgun = Average muzzle velocity of 430 m/s.

7.62x39 fired out of a rifle such as an AK-47 = Average muzzle velocity of 710 m/s.

By that logic, I imagine you consider the gun on the Panzer III F1 'almost' as good as the Tiger's.

They are not comparable in the least. "Pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles".

A 9x19 bullet, such as fired by the MP40, has the average muzzle velocity of 380 m/s. It's also larger. As there is no body armor in this game, the penetration qualities of the 7.62x25 round will count against it: a wound channel will be tight and thin, dealing little damage to any tissue which is not in the direct path of the bullet.

By the way, a 'heavy' .357 magnum bullet has a muzzle velocity of 332 m/s. The lighter ones have a muzzle velocity of around 442 m/s.

Please don't post like you know what you're talking about unless you actually know what you're talking about.

Lets put it this way:

Which would you rather get shot by?

A 9x19 or a 7.62x25??

 

[Crim]

If I had to be shot, 7.62x25mm due to a thinner wound channel and not being able to expend all of its energy by reason of its penetration abilities. More than likely the bullet would pass right through me, which, if it didn't hit anything important, is a very good thing indeed.

If I was wearing modern body armor (which didn't exist during WWII), I'd choose the 9x19mm. Slower, larger, and heavier, meaning it would have a much better chance to be stopped by the body armor than something which is lighter and faster.

 

[GonzoX]

If I had to be shot, 7.62x25mm due to a thinner wound channel and not being able to expend all of its energy by reason of its penetration abilities. More than likely the bullet would pass right through me, which, if it didn't hit anything important, is a very good thing indeed.

If I was wearing modern body armor (which didn't exist during WWII), I'd choose the 9x19mm. Slower, larger, and heavier, meaning it would have a much better chance to be stopped by the body armor than something which is lighter and faster.

You seem to be getting the 9x19 confused with the .45. It REALLY was bigger and heavier and that actually counted with that round.

With the 9x19 the slight differences in size and weight were negiligible IMO. But the velocity differences between it and the Tokarev round are great. The 7.62x25 wins hands down. It was a magnum round essencially.

My point is that because of the high velocity of the Tokarev round it felt and acted more like a rifle round with it's flater trajectory. It was comparable to the .30 M1 Carbine round.

You seem to think it's just another weak pistol round. Which it was not AFAIAC. But that's just my opinion based on what I know about the round. To each his own.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

lets put it this way

mp40
x19
ppsh round
x25
stg 44 round
x33

see, thers only a short bit of difference between those rounds, out of a similar barrel you can see that the ppsh round was almost like a small rifle in full auto. but not all the way up to a stg44. gonzo had a pretty good point there.

yah, gonzo i went by the firing range a while back and picked up some casings from some .45s and some 9mms when i was firing a .22 at the range. i was like WOW !^&%$%&$!! you can easily slip a 9mm inside the .45 and its swallowed inside it.

 

[Crim]

You seem to be getting the 9x19 confused with the .45. It REALLY was bigger and heavier and that actually counted with that round.

With the 9x19 the slight differences in size and weight were negiligible IMO. But the velocity differences between it and the Tokarev round are great. The 7.62x25 wins hands down. It was a magnum round essencially.

My point is that because of the high velocity of the Tokarev round it felt and acted more like a rifle round with it's flater trajectory. It was comparable to the .30 M1 Carbine round.

You seem to think it's just another weak pistol round. Which it was not AFAIAC. But that's just my opinion based on what I know about the round. To each his own.

Okay. First off, no, I'm not confusing the 9mm with the .45. In comparison to the 7.62x25mm, the 9mm IS larger, heavier, and slower.

Look at the average muzzle energy of the two rounds. 7.62x25mm has an average muzzle energy of around 510 joules. 9mm has an average muzzle energy of around 543 joules. One joule, as you might already know, is the minimum amount of force required to lift a one kilogram object up by ten centimeters on Earth.

What we need to find are ballistics charts detailing the 7.62x25mm round. I already know that the muzzle velocity of a 9mm round will decrease by about 50 m/s 100 meters from the muzzle, but I'd like to know how the 7.62x25 performs when it comes to velocity bleed over distance.

Also, no. .30 Carbine is a 7.62x33mm round that has an average muzzle velocity of around 600 m/s, and a muzzle energy value of around 1300 joules. If that's 'comparable', then you must consider the performance of the 9mm and 7.62x25 to be nearly exactly the same.

Edit: To be fair, of course, I'd much rather be shot with neither and instead start returning fire with the gun in your signature.