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General feedback so far, thank me later Tripwire

Deafmute

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 22, 2009
2,058
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knee deep in pussy.
Right, so this post is coming from the perspective of a masochist with 1200 hours in KF and 30 in KF2 who wants games to be as difficult as humanly possible when it makes sense. That doesn't make it any more or less valid than anyone else's, but there it is. I'm not going to go particularly in-depth and a lot of it is probably a rehash of what's already been said, but whatevs.

Thoughts on Commando:
Commando is my bb. Anyone who's played with me knows this. I think he was arguably the only completely balanced class in the first KF and he's..pretty okay in KF 2, but he needs some tweaking. As Gibby pointed out (which I hadn't even thought of), you can no longer see Zed health bars at all times. This is a change I really dislike as it almost defeats the purpose of having health bars in the first place. Part of Commando's appeal was that he could prioritize targets no matter what, and now the health bars arbitrarily disappear (yes I know it's not actually arbitrary). It makes the class less enjoyable even to me, which is acutely distressing. I'm level 17 so I haven't gotten to the higher-level perks yet.

Welding:
I really enjoy that dead doors now stay dead forever, but they need way more health than what they have. Right now welding is useless unless you want to stand around guarding a cardboard door for like 2 minutes before it breaks. Make em tanky and it'll be perfect

Medic:
I played the absolute piss out of Medic in KF. I loved having to time heals and become a good shot with the darts. That sense has pretty much disappeared for me with the stupid beeping noise. I get the lockon, but the beep when you see teammates with any amount of health missing is dumbed down and irritating at best. You don't even have to think as a Medic, the class does everything for you. If the beeping must stay, at least have it only trigger at low life or something.

Zerker:
Haven't played it. Like..at all. Feel free to disregard anything I say. From what I've noticed they're fairly inefficient at killing big guys compared to Support, but who knows with pubs. A lot of the perks don't seem to make sense, such as any that trigger when x% of health is lost. If a zerker is on low health, he's either in big trouble or a Medic isn't doing their job. Not the best thing to base a mechanic off of.

Support:
I'm only like level 2, but I'm sure everyone's noticed the AA12 metagame. The hunting shotty also seems pretty weak for what it is. The Supplier perk could use some sort of visual indication; right now it's impossible to know who has it unless you stand right next to them. Not much else to say about Support, not really my bag.

Voice acting/voice system:
We all know the wheel menu sucks. Not gonna touch that. The new voice acting is great despite people being overly attached to the old voices, but jesus god the characters never shut up. I've heard LOOKS LIKE A TOY, KICKS LIKE A MYEWL so many times I could shoot that senileass priest. I enjoy the general chatter, callouts, and character interaction, but at the very least they shouldn't repeat themselves constantly.

Other stuff:
I think more zeds should spawn in each wave, or spawn in different ways. It usually feels like waves are over extremely quickly and you're left with Scrake/FP stragglers that your Supports have to search for AA12 ammo to kill. I often see multiple Scrakes and/or multiple FPs spawn at the same time, which isn't a problem in itself per se, but right now most of the challenge seems to come from trying not to run out of ammo because the big guys are bullet sponges. It'd help if maybe big zeds were staggered so they spawn with more trash instead of three Scrakes and an FP. Zeds have too much HP in general but that's already been established.

Gonna cut myself off now before I ramble forever. KF2's off to a solid start, especially considering the quality of most 'early access' games. I really missed playing KF and this is already way better. Looking forward to seeing where it goes.
 
What's this missing health bars thing for commando. I kept feeling this way but I was attributing it to distance or something.

I don't know what the code says, but health bars seem to not display until you've shot the zed or it's taken damage. They also seem to disappear after you haven't shot that particular zed recently or something to that effect. I just know they're not constantly visible like in KF1.
 
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mixed feelings on the zed healthbars. I don't like seeing 30 floating healthbars coming at me. I don't mind having to tag a zed with one bullet if it's far to see its healthbar.

Agree zeds have too much health, I'm wondering if that's an attempt to balance sharp shooter. The health needs to come down though.

Beserker missing health mechanics aren't good. Medic will always be healing them. Those bonuses seem to encourage beserker to run off and solo and not be a team player. Please don't bring these "I'm going to run laps around the map 40 times and make you wait 20 minutes for the wave to end" assholes back.

The bonuses each perk gets in general are pretty awful so far with a single set build being completely superior or necessary to the other bonuses. Commando reload+extended mags I'm looking at you. A lot of time needs to be spent balancing the perk bonuses before this game releases.
 
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I don't know what the code says, but health bars seem to not display until you've shot the zed or it's taken damage. They also seem to disappear after you haven't shot that particular zed recently or something to that effect. I just know they're not constantly visible like in KF1.

Ugh. I thought it was just in my head.
I guess it makes sense. I liked commando in KF 1 partly because of health bars. I liked health bars partly because I could see everything in the darkness.

Now we have night vision. I was counting on the health bars to negate my need for that ability.
 
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I totally agree with you on the zerker, their perks feel odd and kinda clash with the way the game is played. It's cool that taking a beating as a melee class makes you stronger, but letting zeds rip through your armour is too costly.

It does seem like quite a few classes, my main medic included, need some tweaks to their perks since they seem terribly underpowered. That is kinda the point of Early-Access though.

Getting low enough to get dropped by a surprise attack just seems silly just to get a damage increase, perhaps if it gave you some additional damage resistance instead it would make more sense.

As far as Zeds having too much health, I think Hans aside they're perfect. As a medic I'm able to single bullet head shot the common zeds, with Bloats taking a few quick shots. My only gripe is how much health the Siren's head has. I can unload an entire clip into her face with the medic pistol and not even kill her.

I also really enjoy how Zed health doesn't increase much with higher difficulties, keeps my weapons feeling powerful and being overwhelmed comes from poor positioning or accuracy rather than having to bullet hose a Clot just to kill it.
 
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Agreed with a lot of this, especially the welding and commando part. Commando feels needlessly nerfed, and welding is next to pointless outside of temporary breathing space for kiting games.

As for support's hunting shotty... Well, one thing I noticed that shotgun ammo seems to be priced the same across the board.
 
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mixed feelings on the zed healthbars. I don't like seeing 30 floating healthbars coming at me. I don't mind having to tag a zed with one bullet if it's far to see its healthbar.

Agree zeds have too much health, I'm wondering if that's an attempt to balance sharp shooter. The health needs to come down though.

Beserker missing health mechanics aren't good. Medic will always be healing them. Those bonuses seem to encourage beserker to run off and solo and not be a team player. Please don't bring these "I'm going to run laps around the map 40 times and make you wait 20 minutes for the wave to end" assholes back.

The bonuses each perk gets in general are pretty awful so far with a single set build being completely superior or necessary to the other bonuses. Commando reload+extended mags I'm looking at you. A lot of time needs to be spent balancing the perk bonuses before this game releases.

I didn't mind the health bars at all in the first one. It wouldn't bother me much if it were just at a distance, but I've not seen them on zeds right in front of me that maybe I just hadn't attacked yet? I saw it last night on a Scrake attacking a teammate. I generally actively avoid shooting big guys if I can help it, but it's nice to know how much health they have at a glance in case my teammate's about to die and I can just kill the Scrake with a few SCAR shots or something.

And yeah Gibby that makes sense. I think I was comparing it too much to KF1, plus I haven't really played it enough to have a concrete opinion. I actually don't mind Hans' health at all now that I know about his bonkers damage reduction when he runs around doing his eating..thing. Just have to save your ammo accordingly. My only concern is that there's no clear indication that he gets such a high damage reduction during certain stages at all, so for a completely new player it's like WHY AM I DOING NO DAMAGE D:<

I imagine a lot of the AA12/Support spam will be fixed or at least somewhat mitigated when Sharp comes out which is why I haven't spent much time complaining about it. Also I'm replying to this on my phone in bed at 8 am. I have problems.
 
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Welding:
I really enjoy that dead doors now stay dead forever, but they need way more health than what they have. Right now welding is useless unless you want to stand around guarding a cardboard door for like 2 minutes before it breaks. Make em tanky and it'll be perfect

Other stuff:
It usually feels like waves are over extremely quickly and you're left with Scrake/FP stragglers that your Supports have to search for AA12 ammo to kill.

Fully agree with the welding, the doors are like tissue paper and it seems pointless to lose the firepower from another player standing there trying to keep it welded.

You're the first person I've seen mention the quick waves, that might be due to the spawning/teleporting zeds which appear to be much closer than KF1.

I haven't put a lot of time into the commando perk in KF2 but one thing I did notice from a video shown a while back was as the perk is levelled the range of the health bars is huge, from the video I seen, it looked about 30 metres (guesstimate) and the screen was so confusing with health bars everywhere. I'm hoping I'm wrong on the distance as I'm not playing at the moment as I'm waiting for more things to be added.
 
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Welding is completely useless. Most people hate what they did to zerker it seems.

4 supports, 2 medics = win right now for sure. Balance is probably pretty correct though. We are missing the perks that deal with big zeds, sharpshooter and demo.

Although I guess zerker can stun skrakes, people largely just haven't figured that out yet, it is helpful.
 
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Zerker:
Haven't played it. Like..at all. Feel free to disregard anything I say. From what I've noticed they're fairly inefficient at killing big guys compared to Support, but who knows with pubs. A lot of the perks don't seem to make sense, such as any that trigger when x% of health is lost. If a zerker is on low health, he's either in big trouble or a Medic isn't doing their job. Not the best thing to base a mechanic off of.

I've played a bit of zerker, and I have to say you pretty much hit the nail on the head there as far as I'm concerned. Everything you pointed out seems valid for the zerker, so I agree.
 
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I've played a bit of zerker, and I have to say you pretty much hit the nail on the head there as far as I'm concerned. Everything you pointed out seems valid for the zerker, so I agree.

Yeah I fully expect a complete rework for zerker based on everyone's feedback. The missing health mechanic sounds like a good idea but in practice it just doesn't work.
 
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I really don't know why people are so insistent on toning down the medic's lock-on. I think it's great because you don't have to worry about anticipating your teammates' jerky movements.

More specifically, healing isn't something that I want to take an extraordinary amount of skill for this reason: most people suck at video games, and I don't want to have to rely on terrible players to get healing. This may not be a problem in KF2 yet because mostly dedicated fans are playing right now, but you know it will be eventually. I can deal with bad players, but not when those idiots are in charge of keeping me alive. I've played enough Team Fortress 2 to know what it's like having to rely on morons, and I'd like to not have to worry about that.
 
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The weird situation with the health bars is my biggest issue with Commando but other than that, I feel like it's ok. At least compared to the other 3 classes we currently have available.

Once we get those other classes I sincerely hope we'll get better ways to deal with Scrakes and Fleshpounds outside of AA12 focus-fire and zerker circle-strafing with the Pulverizer. This might also be why the larger zeds feel like they're spawning so close together, there's nothing to really deal with them efficiently. So, as you said, you end up with multiple Scrakes walking next to each other at the end of the wave. :\
 
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I really don't know why people are so insistent on toning down the medic's lock-on. I think it's great because you don't have to worry about anticipating your teammates' jerky movements.

More specifically, healing isn't something that I want to take an extraordinary amount of skill for this reason: most people suck at video games, and I don't want to have to rely on terrible players to get healing. This may not be a problem in KF2 yet because mostly dedicated fans are playing right now, but you know it will be eventually. I can deal with bad players, but not when those idiots are in charge of keeping me alive. I've played enough Team Fortress 2 to know what it's like having to rely on morons, and I'd like to not have to worry about that.

It was pretty clear that I was referring to the beeping noise when targeting a player with any amount of missing health. I don't think the lock-on is necessary, but it's a quality of life feature which I'm fine with. The beep is just excessive and extremely annoying. I'd be very happy if it were removed but changing it to only trigger when a player is missing a certain percentage of health would be far less grating.
 
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I'm sure the beeping sound will be able to be modded somehow.

As for health bars, I'd love to try some things with them (and that brings me again to mods :p). A bunch of horizontal lines marking vertical creatures strike me as weird, so I'd like to try vertical health bars, or even squares/circles. Maybe even different shapes for each zed tier or type.

Of course, they should be always visible if one wants them to (or at least, always visible when damaged). I think the visible when damaged option is the best for the default base game.
 
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Agree with a lot of this stuff.

The commando health bars are a mixed bag for me though, i can kinda see why they did it since it would make the light system and night vision a little pointless (not really needed to see if you can aim a little under the hp bar for a headshot) but i will admit that i do miss the old way it was, made crawlers a hell of a lot easier to see.

Doors could use a little more health if they are meant to be a limited commodity. Not too too much but even like 25% more would probably do it. Having to move from defense to defense is something that i like and don't want it to go away if the doors get far to much health.

Medic beep is a bit distracting but one thing i noticed is the hp bars are a lot harder to see. Taking a quick glance it's nowhere near as easy to tell how damaged someone is compared to the first game since many of the interiors means it's black health missing on black wall, ceiling or floor. Even a white outline or a red strip at the end would help. If you took the beep away then the health missing would need to be far easier to see, for now i would say make it optional until the health bar gets more contrast from the environment.

Agree that the zerker needs some kind of change. As far as i can tell it's the "do lots of damage" close in class but at the same time it is not as melee focused as in the first game. I guess the "at low health" perks are an emergency measure but i feel like something else could be far better, especially for the harder difficulties where you can go from low hp to dead if you are not careful.

Hunting shotgun is in an odd place, it's not as heavily damaging as the first game but i feel like it works a little better on the trash zeds that show up, i can clear out 5 or 6 in a close space if i shoot both barrels at once. Have been saying that supplier needs a visual cue for a while, not only for someone having it but if you grabbed ammo or not already.

Callouts could be a little less frequent, haven't tried the limit battle chatter setting yet but even without it hearing "British to the last zed scum" every time you kill something with the bullpup gets a little old after the 40th zed in a wave.

Zed spawns could be evened out, i feel like when the Scrake or FP shows up they are often the only thing you have to deal with unless you are wave 7/10 on medium/long. The more interesting moments in my eyes came when there were already clots, husks and stalkers running around and a FP or scrake decides to show up which causes you to have to prioritize important targets. When it's just Scrakes and FPs alone and you have a good team then if you blink you miss them going down.
 
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I really don't know why people are so insistent on toning down the medic's lock-on. I think it's great because you don't have to worry about anticipating your teammates' jerky movements.

More specifically, healing isn't something that I want to take an extraordinary amount of skill for this reason: most people suck at video games, and I don't want to have to rely on terrible players to get healing. This may not be a problem in KF2 yet because mostly dedicated fans are playing right now, but you know it will be eventually. I can deal with bad players, but not when those idiots are in charge of keeping me alive. I've played enough Team Fortress 2 to know what it's like having to rely on morons, and I'd like to not have to worry about that.

This. Please, leave lock as it is. Its hard enough for lots of players to heal correctly as of now.

Just fix the "dart hit, not heal" bug.
 
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