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Full Body Awareness 1st person Definite Thread

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The_Emperor

The_Emperor

Grizzled Veteran
May 9, 2009
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Milkyway
#1
It's been discussed up and down, left and right, but all in various threads, so nothing really connected.

The year is 2012 now, the boxart of RO2 says "The next Generation of WWII Shooters starts here!" It is my understanding that the next generation means a large step forward compared to the predecessors. Actually the whole visual of RO2 can be compared to CoD WaW (not the gameplay just the things you see like animations etc.)

A real step forward would have been to include full body awareness to 1st person view as it adds a lot to immersion and atmosphere. And atmosphere is particularly a part on which RO should still and always has differed from other WWII games.

As I remember discussions on this a thesis was that people might shoot their own legs (on purpose). Crysis did allow you to aim this far down/close to your limbs. One could go the same way or one could say it's a realism shooter, so if people can kill themselves with their own handgrenades they may also kill themselves by shooting their legs/feet.

Another was that if you were to aim down to shoot an enemy below your feet might be on your way. First off there's a 1-2% chance that the enemy is standing exactly below you. If that is the case and you are not able to move backwards to get the enemy in your sights, you'd die anyway no matter there's your feet or not.
Also it was never a problem in Crysis to fight enemies below you. No issues with your feet. I can assure that.



I remembered that I once heard something about this in an interview with TWI.
This video here dates from the Gamescom 2010, go for 5:57 and listen to the next 2 mins.
Ez25 Newsreel - Tripwire RO-Heroes of Stalingrad Interview on Gamescom 2010 - YouTube

Believing this intel it seems that Tripwire had this implemented already but threw it out again. As the beta has been re-opened to everyone in possess of RO2. How about adding this feature to see it in life action. Of course only if it's not an early stage work that hardly works.


So, your thoughts lads (as always :D)! :)
 
#9
Sindrio said:
I still do not see the sense in this. What is the point in seeing your own legs? Why would you look down at your legs in a battlefield? What kind of feature or immersion does it add to see your own legs, especially shooting them?!
Click to expand...

Well, as a matter of realism and next gen and yes
cucamonster said:
the Most Impressive WWII atmosphere in a game ever.
Click to expand...
it is a must have.
I'm simply annoyed that I'm just a gun with hand. It indeed adds to immersion when you see you are a full modeled person. There's enough moments you'd see your legs without directly staring at them.

Especially shooting them? No one said you shall do but if you want to injure yourself you may do. :D Nah, the thing is that some folks here brought this as the main thesis against seeing your body that people will shoot themselves. Well there's morons too who kill themselves with their own nades, you should forbidd nades though. :D


FBA is a must have in my eyes and comparison to other franchises don't count, cause RO always claimed to be special.
 
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#10
It's not a "must have." It's a nice aesthetic that has zero bearing on gameplay. It's something that'd be nice, sure, but there are far more important things to do, too. And as nice of an aesthetic as it can be, it doesn't break the game to not have it. Most of the time people wouldn't even notice the difference.
 
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#11
PhoenixDragon said:
It's not a "must have." It's a nice aesthetic that has zero bearing on gameplay. It's something that'd be nice, sure, but there are far more important things to do, too. And as nice of an aesthetic as it can be, it doesn't break the game to not have it. Most of the time people wouldn't even notice the difference.
Click to expand...


"Most of the people" play CoD, the different ones stick to RO (mainly). ;)

Sure there's more important things, currently. FBA could have made it to the game when TWI were working in those 3 years of development. To me it still feels like they started work somewhere in May - June 2011.
Like Schneidzekk said in the interview, they obviously had it implemented but removed it later in the development. As the RO2 Beta is re-opened it would be easy to make a field test with it.
 
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#12
The_Emperor said:
"Most of the people" play CoD,
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So desperate for a clever line that you mis-quote me to do it. I didn't say "most of the people" wouldn't notice. I said "most of the time" people wouldn't notice. It's rare enough to have a match where your legs being visible would even be noticeable (There isn't that much need for shooting almost straight down). If it were something simple to add in properly, sure, but I suspect it would involve a lot more work to get right than you assume - quite possibly why it wasn't in the released game.
 
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#15
PhoenixDragon said:
So desperate for a clever line that you mis-quote me to do it. I didn't say "most of the people" wouldn't notice. I said "most of the time" people wouldn't notice. It's rare enough to have a match where your legs being visible would even be noticeable (There isn't that much need for shooting almost straight down). If it were something simple to add in properly, sure, but I suspect it would involve a lot more work to get right than you assume - quite possibly why it was in the released game.
Click to expand...

Desperate for a line? No, wouldn't think so. ;)
But if you insist I shall answer on the "right" quotation too.
There's plenty occasions you'd notice it: Picking up enemy weapons (you have to face down to see the weapons), crouching on higher floors looking down.

I don't get why I see my feet and body inside a tank but not outside. I assume it a good portion of work, which could have been mastered easily if work on HoS would been started earlier. All presentations throughout the past years feels very much like it's the same stuff presented in 2008 in Cologne.

Like I said IF there's any stuff available - Schneidzekk's statement sounded like that - it shouldn't be a serious issue to get this into the beta and see how it works.


And yes, indeed technology. No legs ingame allows the question is TWI a worse developer studio than Crytek? Can't they handle this?
 
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#16
The_Emperor said:
There's plenty occasions you'd notice it: Picking up enemy weapons (you have to face down to see the weapons), crouching on higher floors looking down.
Click to expand...

Having it on-screen isn't the same as consciously noticing it. For example, the number of people who were confused when people were talking about peripheral markers, having never noticed the blips on the side of their screen until it was pointed out to them. In my experience, being able to see your legs in-game is a momentary "oh, that's neat" the first time, followed by never thinking of it again. It's completely superficial. If this were some sort of jump-puzzle game, then it might be useful from a gameplay perspective (Mirror's Edge benefited from being able to see your legs, for example), but in a game like this it's just a nice, if hardly noticed, aesthetic, with no gameplay impact.
 
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#17
For me this "this is neat" - moment made Crysis special to me. I felt like a real person. Of course it is asthetic but with all the physics play-around in RO2 I believe it a really nice addition indeed. Actually anything ingame is currently asthetic things, basically you wouldn't need hands holding the gun, no detailed gun model either. Handing out a stick would actually do aswell, no?

Something I do not understand is why when I'm dying I can see my feet when deathcam is downwards but the entire time I'm alive I can't. Is there a special reason to it? Those legs and feet seem to belong to the 3rd person model but they don't look bad at all, you could use them for 1st person easily. I really believe it's merely a cam thing actually and nothing that needs further animation done. Just some scripting.

How about some words from TWI on this issue?
 
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#18
The_Emperor said:
Actually anything ingame is currently asthetic things, basically you wouldn't need hands holding the gun, no detailed gun model either. Handing out a stick would actually do aswell, no?
Click to expand...

The weapon is an aesthetic that's constantly on-screen and often part of the focus of the game. It's much higher up on the important-aesthetic scale than legs that you might easily not even look at in a match.

Though amusingly, my favorite old shooter (Rogue Spear) didn't have your weapon shown at all in first-person, and it worked just fine. It's also amusing that it gave you a more proper real-life, unobstructed view than the more modern iron-sights views. While I do like the aesthetic of the iron sights, they also tend to block your view far more than they would in real-life.
 
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#19
I fail to see how this offers any gameplay advantage at all. The only time you'd see your legs is when mantling and I think the animation looks great as it is. Seeing your own legs seems like the least important suggestion in the history of this forum considering the effort-to-advantage ratio which would be required to implement this.
 
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