Flamethrowers

Brendan · Sep 6, 2009

fficial%26hs%3Dvxi%26sa%3DN%26start%3D36%26um%3D1&ei=MxSkSqm4B4ypnQfKmPT0DQ
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...kreich,_Fallschirmjäger_mit_Flammenwerfer.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...kreich,_Fallschirmjäger_mit_Flammenwerfer.jpg
http://www.wiking.org/images/wiking_flamm.jpg http://www.wiking.org/images/wiking_flamm.jpg
http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/234678-2/______rwtnbd http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/234678-2/______rwtnbd
http://www.fjr2.be/gr-Falschirmj%E4ger-7.jpg http://www.fjr2.be/gr-Falschirmj%E4ger-7.jpg
---Detail:
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/13307/1103598-maxflammenwerfer_large.jpg http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/13307/1103598-maxflammenwerfer_large.jpg
http://www.fjr2.be/Wapens - Flammenwerfer 41.jpg http://www.fjr2.be/Wapens - Flammenwerfer 41.jpg
http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/firearms-ordnance/flammenwerfer-restoration-project-702/http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/firearms-ordnance/flammenwerfer-restoration-project-702/
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289782&highlight=flammenwerfer http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289782&highlight=flammenwerfer
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42570&highlight=flammenwerfer http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42570&highlight=flammenwerfer
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=121669 http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=121669
http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000902/902319.jpg http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000902/902319.jpg
http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000902/902321.jpg http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000902/902321.jpg
http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000902/902323.jpg http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000902/902323.jpg

Misc:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=91161 http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=91161
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/portft/index.html http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/portft/index.html

EXTREMELY INFORMATIVE (FOLLOW LINKS):
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/flammenwerfer.htm http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/flammenwerfer.htm

Harness/Strap Detail:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309586&highlight=flammenwerfer http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309586&highlight=flammenwerfer

Zetsumei · Sep 6, 2009

Stalingrad sewers wouldn't be stalingrad sewers without flamethrowers to drive out the sniper rats so i hope there will be flamethrowers atleast in sp. I do hope that such a class would be severely limited like snipers.

However shooting a petrol tank at the back of a person with a flamethrower won't get it to explode unless possibly with a tracer round. Just try shooting at a jerry can with gasoline, if you shoot at it it will only make some holes making the fluid drip out.

The gas tank purely got pressurized gas in it, and because the container is quite strong when hit it might trip the user forward like a jet stream but the gas used is not flammable and wont cause a catastrophic explosion for the user.

If anything i don't want to see petrol barrels / flamethrowers / tank petrol carriers explode when hit with bullets.

Mormegil · Sep 6, 2009

Talking about incendiaries, were Molotov cocktails used much in Stalingrad? Wouldn't mind seeing those in.

213 · Sep 7, 2009

they used gas for the flame? i thought it was a type of viscus liquid.

Flanker15 · Sep 7, 2009

Liquid propelled by the gas.

Problem would be they only have 5 or so short bursts before you're out of fuel or igniters. Then you'd have to ditch it and find another weapon.

husbert · Sep 7, 2009

flamers should also work against tanks
cooking the crew would be delicious

Susi · Sep 7, 2009

Flanker15 said:
Liquid propelled by the gas.

Problem would be they only have 5 or so short bursts before you're out of fuel or igniters. Then you'd have to ditch it and find another weapon.

To be more accurate 10 seconds of continuous use. Well maybe he could have pistol as a sidearm.

Mr Milkman · Sep 7, 2009

One of the things that come to mind when I think of Stalingrad IS flamethrowers. They go hand in hand... hope tripwire aren't gonna be lazy about it..

PETERPANs · Sep 7, 2009

I wonder flamethrower efect on tanks. Sometimes you got nice chance to be near tanks. I think that flamethrower could demage enemy tank, if you use it near ventilation system of engine. Or just spray tank with flamable fluid like napalm effect. You can blind driver also, little sights are not good protection against flame if you have chance you can use it if sights are open and you see driver head, that should kill driver and also poison crew by heavy smoke inside of tank.

In general there is two tipes of flametrower:
1. instant falme, gas or liquid is burned very quickly
2. napalm style, it drop flamable liquid on ground, time of burning wall depends on amount of used liquid - several minutes or seconds.

Brendan · Sep 7, 2009

Thank you for the corrections on the exploding fuel tank. I guess I got ahead of myself. That is certainly one large urban myth. My father was an FDNY firefighter and went to tons of car fires. Not once did any sort of fuel tank explode. The car would catch fire from the fuel, but there would be no explosion (there is no oxygen within the tank).

A pistol as a sidearm would be an excellent idea, but I'm not sure if it his accurate compared to the photos. It would have to be further discussed...

Thanks for the information on the 10 second duration. Is that for German flamethrower models or something else? I'd be very interested in finding the exact time for the German models.

-Brendan

Mr Milkman · Sep 7, 2009

I don't know if it's a normal feature or just a bug but in the RO mod, Darkest Hour I managed to shoot and kill a tank driver through his vision slit?? I can't remember what tank it was, it may have been a stug...

Susi · Sep 7, 2009

Molotov coctails

"Soviet tanks had poorly designed engine louvres which allowed the admission of fuel - this design fault was quickly rectified, and subsequent armoured vehicles had engine louvres which drained fuel (as well as rain water and dust) away from the engine." - Wikipedia

So molotovs didnt work out anymore against tanks like T-34

Flamethrover
"But generally the ability to disable the tank with a flame thrower depends on how easy the burning liquid can ooze into vulnerable parts of the tank such as the engine. If the flamethrower can set the engine afire, the tank is immobilized and often likely to blow up completely due to the gasoline engines of most tanks (russian tanks were not as vulnerable as others since they used diesel fuel which is harder to ignite)." -WW II German Infantry Anti-Tank Weapons

And maybe i dont need to even mention what happens if you got driver hatch open.

PETERPANs · Sep 7, 2009

Susi said:
Molotov coctails

"Soviet tanks had poorly designed engine louvres which allowed the admission of fuel - this design fault was quickly rectified, and subsequent armoured vehicles had engine louvres which drained fuel (as well as rain water and dust) away from the engine." - Wikipedia

So molotovs didnt work out anymore against tanks like T-34

Flamethrover
"But generally the ability to disable the tank with a flame thrower depends on how easy the burning liquid can ooze into vulnerable parts of the tank such as the engine. If the flamethrower can set the engine afire, the tank is immobilized and often likely to blow up completely due to the gasoline engines of most tanks (russian tanks were not as vulnerable as others since they used diesel fuel which is harder to ignite)." -WW II German Infantry Anti-Tank Weapons

And maybe i dont need to even mention what happens if you got driver hatch open.

I dont agree with T-34 imunity against flame weapons. Yes they got advantage than german tanks but kepp it in moderation, everything is destroyable. They got air cooling and if you ignited flamable liquid near cooler or engine it could overheat engine realy quickly. Also its imposible to operate tank weapons if your turret is burning + heavy smoke. Air heat make optics slightly inaccurate and of course if you se only smoke tank is useless.

Tiger2 · Sep 7, 2009

I thought that all medium-heavy tanks had armored glass in the vision slits on both sides. If there were tanks that did not, they would probably have mirrors which allowed the driver to observe the road without exposing himself.

Drakeen · Sep 7, 2009

great idea, id love to see some flamer action!

Brendan · Sep 7, 2009

A sidearm would be a great idea, but I'm not sure if it would be that authentic based off of photographic reference. It looks like most flamethrowers are protected by teams. I suppose this point would have to be debated further.

It would be very cool to see a player clearing a room or a tunnel with a few short bursts from the flamethrower. I know that someone mentioned 10 seconds of play time, that would be awesome. It would also be better IMO if the player had no dial or model to display how much fuel is left.

The only way that flamethrowers would be able to affect tanks is through the engine, since almost all view ports on tanks from then were protected by several layers of plated glass, and hatches were locked from the inside. I'll get some scans from the German book 'Panzerknacker' for tank hunting. There are diagrams of molotov cocktails being used on key points of Russian tanks.

A burst of flame could also act as a very fast acting smoke screen if used properly.

My apologies on bringing up the idea of the fuel tank exploding, that is actually not realistic what so ever. My father was an NYC fire fighter and went to tons of car fires. Not once did any fuel tank explode. Many however, did leak fuel and were the initial cause of the fire. The reasoning, I believe, for a lack of an explosion, is because of the fact that there is no oxygen within the fuel tank.

REZ · Sep 7, 2009

id love to see some flamer action!

oh so quotable

Brendan · Sep 7, 2009

I believe WWII-era flamethrowers also produced a distinct 'hissing' sound from the pressure when activated, even when not firing. It would be cool to always have the flamethrower in a standby state in HOS, so that the end of the nozzle is burning slightly and some flame falls to the ground ever so often.

When fired, sometimes the flame ignite immediately from the barrel, and sometimes there may have been a 2-3 foot stream of whichever liquid was used, followed by the firey blast.

***When the flamethrower is activated, the tank is highly pressurized (to provide the push). If this tank were to be shot, the only result I can think of is the napalm-like fuel to spray all over the place from the entry hole. There is no oxygen and the liquid is too thick to cause any sort of an explosion. The resulting sound would be a loud and obnoxious hissing noise, and the player would probably run out of fuel/ammunition within a few seconds.***

"It should be noted that flame thrower operators did not usually face a fiery death from the slightest spark or even from having their tank hit by a normal bullet as often depicted in modern war films. The Gas Container [i.e. the pressurizer] is filled with a non-flammable gas that is under high pressure. If this tank were ruptured, it might knock the operator forward as it was expended in the same way a pressurized aerosol can bursts outward when punctured. The fuel mixture in the Fuel Containers is difficult to light which is why magnesium filled igniters are required when the weapon is fired. Fire a bullet into a metal can filled with diesel or napalm and it will merely leak out the hole unless the round was an incendiary type that could possibly ignite the mixture inside. This also applies to the flame thrower Fuel Container."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamethrower

Brendan · Sep 7, 2009

Follow this link to view German infantry diagrams for tank hunting. Molotov cocktails are pictured and are prescribed for effectiveness to Russian tank engines. http://www.3pgd.org/reference/panzer.htm

Bluehawk · Sep 7, 2009

You could still blast the front of the tank with a flame thrower or Molotov so that all the smoke would block the view of the driver and possibly the coax-MG gunner as well. The Finnish deliberately put thickening agents in their cocktails partly for this purpose, and partly to make the petrol more viscous so it wouldn't all just run down the sides and onto the ground.

Also, splashing the tank's armor near the magazine may or may not put it at risk of cooking off.

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