Excuse me? stoner 63A does LESS damage than AR15? Seriously?
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Gladius;n2290270 said:
You have conceded on all points.
Gitgud retard.
Face it, if you were any good then you wouldn't have gotten damage value of 9mm ar15 and L85 wrong, and you would have realized that L85 is better commando trashclearing weapon overall(mostly due to being cheap and available from wave 2 or so) and P90 is straight up better....before you ever dared to mention "balance."
Juding by the fact that you tried to challenge me on damage of 9mm ar15 and l85, you probably haven't played this game for a few months and you probably haven't even used Stoner, or you play at Normal/Hard where anything works fine.
Once again, git gud.
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No, I don't „concede“ at all. It's just a waste of time arguing with someone who believes he would win an argument by having the last word and ignoring anything he is being told and that was already discussed in this thread days ago.ComradeHX;n2290273 said:
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Gladius;n2290277 said:No, I don't „concede“ at all. It's just a waste of time arguing with someone who believes he would win an argument by having the last word and ignoring anything he is being told and that was already discussed in this thread days ago.
Still ignoring what you can't respond to. Thus you have conceded on those points.
Again, you tried to challenge me ( "get [my] facts straight")when I claimed 9mm ar15 does same damage as l85, are you going to say you were just pretending to be retarded? Btw, AR15 has faster ROF on semi.
Again, L85 for trash clearing.
Stoner may work in your little world of normal/hard, but on HoE nobody has money to waste on that ****.
The fact is that if it's all discussed then you would have easily been able to link to the posts in which it was discussed.
Git gud.
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Gladius;n2290277 said:No, I don't „concede“ at all. It's just a waste of time arguing with someone who believes he would win an argument by having the last word and ignoring anything he is being told and that was already discussed in this thread days ago.
Wait, is that graph of scrake headshots means how many hs can be landed in a min? or how many headshots required to kill sc?
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defekt_;n2290271 said:
I have to lean to the awful side, it just doesn't have the stats to justify its price. the fact that the most comparable gun is the P90, a gun that is both lighter and cheaper should be ringing alarm bells all over.
and it isn't a very flexible gun either, it has no semi-auto function... this makes it harder to effectively use its large magazine on trash mobs (using the AR damage bonus on various mobs). it has no real stagger power either, so barring the use of a skill it cannot be used to stagger something even remotely reliably. the M16 and the medic AR at least have their own utility functions (a grenade launcher and heals respectively) to justify higher weight and price.
I'm just saying it needs something to justify it being 9 blocks weight and 1500 dosh
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s5yn3t;n2290282 said:
It's damage a headshot deals to Scrake.
conductiv;n2290286 said:
It really does, or it needs to be lowered to 8 blocks and 1100dosh.
But according to some scrub who only play normal/hard, it's balanced.
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I say bring Stoner's price down for now and introduce another LMG later with better damage/dps at the cost of mag size/reserve ammo/ammo cost/1500 price/weight or something. That way there's some choice in the matter.
Then again I'm just some scrub that only plays normal/hard and sui when I feel I've practiced enough lately(livin' dat pub life) so I probably wouldn't know.
Then again I'm just some scrub that only plays normal/hard and sui when I feel I've practiced enough lately(livin' dat pub life) so I probably wouldn't know.
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ComradeHX;n2290287 said:But according to some scrub who only play normal/hard, it's balanced.
funny..this coming from someone who has all of 216hrs into the game as opposed to the "scrub" having over 850hrs.
but anyway, i have used the stoner for a bit on HoE as well as SuI and i will concede that it being a trash clearer its quite expensive.nonetheless i do like the gun alot since i play mando "as is intended" that being trash clearer and general support perk for the team.
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I really enjoy the high rate of fire. It adds something new to playing the Commando perk.
I see no problem with tap firing instead of holding down m1 and wasting ammo. Where that ROF really shines is during zed time. It helps getting those extensions when zeds are running at an angle.
And with that „zed time – machine gunner“ skill it gets ridiculous. ROF 909 x 3 = 2727 !!!
This is definately not something that should be available for cheap at early waves.
That scrake gets obliterated on the spot: http://sendvid.com/5gudoeid
I see no problem with tap firing instead of holding down m1 and wasting ammo. Where that ROF really shines is during zed time. It helps getting those extensions when zeds are running at an angle.
And with that „zed time – machine gunner“ skill it gets ridiculous. ROF 909 x 3 = 2727 !!!
This is definately not something that should be available for cheap at early waves.
That scrake gets obliterated on the spot: http://sendvid.com/5gudoeid
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Gladius;n2290313 said:
knowing you this was probably done on HoE 1 man..i wonder how the stoner does in a sc on a full server. testmap it is.
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Gladius;n2290301 said:
You should take your own advice.
Clearly damage refers to per-shot damage, as I've consistently referred to DPS as such by...dps, not simply "damage."
Again, they do same damage.
Only differing in dps due to differences in rate of fire.
Fyi, AR-15 can shoot faster if you click fast(or macro) with limit of 1000rpm if you want to continue trying to argue that.
And you've fallen for the bait.
Now tell me again how extra ROF matters when you one-shot decap all the trash. Aren't you supposed to headshot as commando?
poultrygeist;n2290309 said:funny..this coming from someone who has all of 216hrs into the game as opposed to the "scrub" having over 850hrs.
but anyway, i have used the stoner for a bit on HoE as well as SuI and i will concede that it being a trash clearer its quite expensive.nonetheless i do like the gun alot since i play mando "as is intended" that being trash clearer and general support perk for the team.
You can grind away on normal/hard and never gitgud.
It adds a gimped SWAT gun.Gladius;n2290313 said:
The problem is that one could just play SWAT and fire P90 on semi-auto.Gladius;n2290313 said:
And get unlimited ammo(can fire even with 0 ammo) in zed time in addition to moderate amount of rate of fire increase, assuming there's someone extending it.
SWAT...blah, blah blah. P90 857 x 3.04(51% zed time resistance vs. Mando's 50%) = 2605Gladius;n2290313 said:
in addition to basically same damage (30 x 1.25 == 25 * 1.5 unless Commando +3% zed time)
in addition to unlimited ammo. (plus its 100 rounds in reserve, so you can have potato aim and still kill something)
in addition to fast walk speed on crouch/ads.
in addition to cripple skill slowing scrake after a few shots.
in addition to possibility of flashbang.
in addition to 1100dosh cost.
in addition to lower weight. (so one can carry three SMGs instead of just another rifle)
in addition to better sights. (red dot, mostly due to preference but also because a dot isn't blocking something immediately below point of aim(thus it doesn't block crawler).
It shouldn't, but it's also not good enough in later waves compared to its cheaper SWAT alternative.Gladius;n2290313 said:
SCAR(19 rounds, 0.608s), P90(39 rounds, ~0.898s) vs. Stoner(38 rounds, ~0.836s)Gladius;n2290313 said:
You're paying $400 more(plus bullet costs from accidental failtaps) for ~0.062s faster time to decap a Scrake, while giving up the massive utility of flashbang. (plus all the ammo saved during zed time for SWAT)
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The fact that it's a belt-fed weapon was flawed from the get go.
While i personally would've preferred to see the M249 for a 60rd rifle magazine, I also think that an LMG in zombie shooters should be able to hit multiple targets with a single bullet.
While i personally would've preferred to see the M249 for a 60rd rifle magazine, I also think that an LMG in zombie shooters should be able to hit multiple targets with a single bullet.
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ComradeHX;n2290324 said:
your point being with this statement?
dude, some of us have played this game for a long time at this point, went through all the "mechanics" and the finer points of how certain guns perform in different scenarios.
i like the stoner, you dont..thats ok.
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The point is that hours played does not necessarily mean skill(I can use idlemaster too, but I don't) and it clearly doesn't work in an argument in lieu of facts.poultrygeist;n2290328 said:
I actually like being able to shoot nearly 200 rounds in one trigger pull.
But all I ask(which is basically the same as what many others want) is a tiny buff of 5 damage so it's up to tier 4 standards instead of being an overpriced/gimped P90. Stoner needs the damage buff to make it worthwhile over just getting a P90(and being SWAT).
I've done the math above and, unless something went wrong, P90 is statistically pretty close in time to decap scrake even in Zed time. Time difference basically not noticeable, and there's all the benefits of P90(price, weight...etc.) and SWAT(mobility while ADS/crouching, slow, flashbang).
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I think he only brought up the hours played thing because you suddenly assumed that Gladius plays on normal/hard. Jab for jab.
Doesn't your entire P90 breakdown assume that you're playing as SWAT?
Doesn't your entire P90 breakdown assume that you're playing as SWAT?
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silverlighted;n2290332 said:
Gladius posts like someone who only plays normal/hard (speaking of "balance" while being fact-free and telling others to "gitgud" while getting multiple things wrong), so it's only natural to assume he does just that.
Jab for jab? Not even close. Pretty sure facts and logic hurts him a lot more.
P90 would be on-perk(lv25) just like stoner. I did mention "(and being SWAT)."
If you use Stoner off-perk, it would be even worse. (9 weight 1500 dosh could have been used for RPG instead of watergun)
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ComradeHX;n2290337 said:
He's an HOE player. Has been since KF1. It is Jab for Jab. You made an ignorant insult about what difficulty he plays on, and someone else made a similarly superficial insult about your hours played.
I know that you mentioned "and being SWAT", but I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. Cause why on earth would you compare an on-perk stoner to an on-perk p90? You disparaged the argued value of the stoner by saying that you should use a different gun WITH A DIFFERENT PERK. Going off on a tangent about the usefulness of on-perk swat guns is irrelevant to the discussion of guns and loadouts while you're commando.
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