Excuse me? stoner 63A does LESS damage than AR15? Seriously?

[taiiat]

However, I did not make the LMG universally superior to ARs as well.
First, it is a 15-weight weapon, which means NO secondary weapons. If you have a dry mag of the LMG you'll NOT have another AR in hand like the traditional commandos do. You can do nothing but reload it under enemy fire and this is a HUGE disadvantage (more severely if this LMG has long reload).
Second, I said stats not too far,huh? Like a damage of 40 and rof at 600? (That's AK's stats) or a damage of 50 and rof at 550? (M60E4's stats, very near to SCAR) The SCAR always beat it in some aspects dude. That's not a universally superior. The LMG isn't designed to be superior at all stats, nor shall it. The highest spike damage always goes to SCAR.

but surely you did - not having a backup Weapon doesn't really matter when you have a box Magazine that completely exceeds the capacity of the two Assault Rifles you'd be able to carry otherwise? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

and since you want Stats to be close to Assault Rifles, then the Reload won't be much longer. so then it's basically just two Assault Rifles in one gun, is it not? above average Damage, and bottomless Ammo?

it sounds like a replacement for the rest of your Assault Rifles to me.



as it stands with a relatively low Damage Model, it's best served as an ammo muncher. fairly inexpensive Ammunition then, is quite fitting. to be able to afford to mow all kinds of Light and Medium Enemies down.

i would, however, say that for the role of mowing down lighter Enemies, the Reload is a bit long. i'd take ~500ms off of all of the Reload stages. still notably longer than any of the other Automatic Weapons.
not that it impedes this role, but.

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

but surely you did - not having a backup Weapon doesn't really matter when you have a box Magazine that completely exceeds the capacity of the two Assault Rifles you'd be able to carry otherwise? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

and since you want Stats to be close to Assault Rifles, then the Reload won't be much longer. so then it's basically just two Assault Rifles in one gun, is it not? above average Damage, and bottomless Ammo?

it sounds like a replacement for the rest of your Assault Rifles to me.

I guess I had a faulty tounge? I said stats close to ARs, sure. I meant to damage per shot and rof, not the magazine size and the reload. The reload can be very long, probably even longer than reloading 2 ARs.

The combo of 2 ARs has versatility. If there isn't enough time to reload just switch to the other and continue firing. This LMG cannot- once depleted, no switches but reload. Also, I'd recommend the LMG to be AK level damage and rate of fire. It cannot serve as a replacement for all ARs cause it always lose to the SCAR on spike damage output.

******Formulas******

Damage*rof=Damage per minute (or per second, depending on measurement), which is the spike output index of the weapon. It must be the SCAR which holds the ace of it.
For multishot weapons, Magazine size/rof= Weapon sustainability.
Reload time=Weapon versatility. It will be further hampered if this weapon has sluggish equip/unequip, or unswitchable(15KG weapon).

******Data analysis******

A balanced LMG shall be similar to medium-tier ARs in DPS. (If it reached or exceeded SCAR's dps then there will be "replace all" issues) This can be either a stat replica of medium-tier ARs like AK(40*600rpm), or any other numbers that the multiplier is equal or near the referred AR. 25*960 or 30*800 or 40*600 or 50*480 all works since the multiplier are the same as 24,000.

A balanced LMG shall hold the greatest sustainability cause MGs (modern LMG) are made to do so. Upon the rof is determined the magazine size is the ONLY stat that's linked to it. A big mag is a must, especially for high rof types. (If you want to design a WW2 hard hitting MG with LOW magazine count, like the ZB26 or type 99, then make it LOW.)

Reload time=Weapon versatility. LMGs are heavy weapons. The reloads shall be long. The sluggish equip/unequip and unswitchable(15KG) can be added too.

******End of calculation data******

The LMG (modern LMG) is designed to hold ammo of at least 2 AR magazines in its mag, and reload twice as slow. To compensate for the advantage of the big mag the DPS can be nerfed to T3 ar standards while this weapons holds a T4 orientation. If it's orientated at T3, then make the DPS to be T2 ar standards.

To my opinion, the stoner 63A is misplaced as a T4 weapon. Its performance is very similar to P90 in SWAT hand which is a T3 weapon. It is NOT 15KG (I vote against the T4 LMG being pairable with SCAR), it does NOT have ammopool which worths its weight and tier (T4 weapons usually carry the most damage in its ammo pool. For unperked SCAR it's 50*360=18,000. For nowadays 63A it's 25*575=14,375, which is far from SCAR but similar to AK's 40*330=13,200.). I'd recommend it reorientated as T3 and let it compete with AK instead of SCAR.

 

[taiiat]

I said stats close to ARs, sure. I meant to damage per shot and rof, not the magazine size and the reload. The reload can be very long, probably even longer than reloading 2 ARs.

fair enough!

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

fair enough!

I've got supplements on the previous floors. Read again for more info.

 

[Radio4ctive]

Commando is a trash cleaner and stoner is perfect for trash celaning. So i think stoner don't need a buffs.

 

[I'm not a Robot]

Nobody should be surprised to see the individual bullet damage on an LMG is ridiculously low...

Enjoy your insane amount of bullets to offset. It's a balancing act.. and honestly.. it was the right approach to start. Imagine high damage and high ammo capacity..

That would be the definition of broken.

I'd expect a slight buff once TWI gets a good amount of feedback, but nothing crazy.

Honestly, what's the point then? Just take SWAT if you want to be a bullet hose. The "LMG" is really crappy and personally I won't ever use it again if it's not going to get buffed. I was shocked how bad this gun is. Looks bulky but is a peashooter.

Speaking of looks, the stoner looks odd. A bit too "videogamey" if you know what I mean. It's probably the textures. It looks really really odd to me. The stoner seems to be a gun if you can't decide between swat or commando. Even with hollow point rounds this gun just sucks butt. This gun is definitely not a T4 weapon and definitely not worth 1.5k

 

[Reallifeh8er]

Honestly, what's the point then? Just take SWAT if you want to be a bullet hose. The "LMG" is really crappy and personally I won't ever use it again if it's not going to get buffed. I was shocked how bad this gun is. Looks bulky but is a peashooter.

Speaking of looks, the stoner looks odd. A bit too "videogamey" if you know what I mean. It's probably the textures. It looks really really odd to me. The stoner seems to be a gun if you can't decide between swat or commando. Even with hollow point rounds this gun just sucks butt. This gun is definitely not a T4 weapon and definitely not worth 1.5k

Exactly.

Want to win the game? Don't buy underpowered or useless guns.

 

[Gladius]

Bunch of scrubs...

The Stoner is for trash clearing. If it would be meant to hose down scrakes in close quarters, it would be shamelessly overpowered.

It one-headshot-kills Cysts, Clots, Slashers, Gorefasts.

Crawlers die on a single bodyshot!

3 headshots for Gorefiends and Alphaclots.

It starts getting weaker at medium zeds but that isn't really an issue at that high rate of fire and ammo capacity.

Again: The Stoner is exactly where it is supposed to be. If that thing gets buffed to hose down scrakes in CQB I will uninstall.

 

[Veny]

Dont know what is the problem - i tried Stoner and it was awesome. AND i used survivalist, not commando, so instead of 50% mag size/25% damage boost and 50% mag size/50% reload speed reduction i got only 50% reload speed plus faster Zed time reload (which is awesome for Stoner). And also passive damage boost was slightly lower.

Stoner is great for clearing small trash and also provides great support against big zeds (Scrake especially). I dont know if people expected overpowered beast (i knew it will be super fast but weak weapon) or if this is just hate at all cost but i am satisfied. Cant wait to try it on Commando..

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Bunch of scrubs...

The Stoner is for trash clearing. If it would be meant to hose down scrakes in close quarters, it would be shamelessly overpowered.

It one-headshot-kills Cysts, Clots, Slashers, Gorefasts.

Crawlers die on a single bodyshot!

3 headshots for Gorefiends and Alphaclots.

It starts getting weaker at medium zeds but that isn't really an issue at that high rate of fire and ammo capacity.

Again: The Stoner is exactly where it is supposed to be. If that thing gets buffed to hose down scrakes in CQB I will uninstall.

The stats are strange. Referring to KF2 WIKI the gorefast had a head health of 50. According to my calculation a headshot from stoner LMG will deal 45 damage to a gorefast, which will not bust its head. However, in my test within ability (the stoner 63A rarely fire 1 shot only, even with the slightest click), I see a headless gorefast.

PS: Calculation: The stoner 63A has 25 base damage. After enhancement of perk passives(+25%) and LV20 left(HP rounds, +25%) it resulted in 38 damage in a LV25 commando's hand. Multiply it with the gorefast's vulnerability to ARs(1.2x), that's 45 damage.
I know that headshot multiplier has not yet been added, but according to KF2 wiki, that ratio is X1.

 

[Gladius]

Maybe stop basing your criticism on miscalculations. The effective headshot damage on a gorefast from a level 25 mando with hollow point decaps a gorefast.

 

[I'm not a Robot]

Exactly.

Want to win the game? Don't buy underpowered or useless guns.

Trust me, I won't buy that piece of garbage. I'm better off spending my 1.5k on actual good guns.

 

[taiiat]

The stats are strange. Referring to KF2 WIKI the gorefast had a head health of 50. According to my calculation a headshot from stoner LMG will deal 45 damage to a gorefast, which will not bust its head. However, in my test within ability (the stoner 63A rarely fire 1 shot only, even with the slightest click), I see a headless gorefast.

PS: Calculation: The stoner 63A has 25 base damage. After enhancement of perk passives(+25%) and LV20 left(HP rounds, +25%) it resulted in 38 damage in a LV25 commando's hand. Multiply it with the gorefast's vulnerability to ARs(1.2x), that's 45 damage.
I know that headshot multiplier has not yet been added, but according to KF2 wiki, that ratio is X1.

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.c...general-discussion-af/114590-kf2-weapon-stats

 

[infntnub]

Honestly, what's the point then? Just take SWAT if you want to be a bullet hose. The "LMG" is really crappy and personally I won't ever use it again if it's not going to get buffed. I was shocked how bad this gun is. Looks bulky but is a peashooter.

Speaking of looks, the stoner looks odd. A bit too "videogamey" if you know what I mean. It's probably the textures. It looks really really odd to me. The stoner seems to be a gun if you can't decide between swat or commando. Even with hollow point rounds this gun just sucks butt. This gun is definitely not a T4 weapon and definitely not worth 1.5k

I realize this is a message board and everyone has a right to an opinion but... Robot, your posts in here are downright ridiculous, lol.

Have fun playing SWAT I guess if that's what makes you happy.

 

[Gladius]

I guess I had a faulty tounge? I said stats close to ARs, sure. I meant to damage per shot and rof, not the magazine size and the reload. The reload can be very long, probably even longer than reloading 2 ARs.

The combo of 2 ARs has versatility. If there isn't enough time to reload just switch to the other and continue firing. This LMG cannot- once depleted, no switches but reload. Also, I'd recommend the LMG to be AK level damage and rate of fire. It cannot serve as a replacement for all ARs cause it always lose to the SCAR on spike damage output.

******Formulas******

Damage*rof=Damage per minute (or per second, depending on measurement), which is the spike output index of the weapon. It must be the SCAR which holds the ace of it.
For multishot weapons, Magazine size/rof= Weapon sustainability.
Reload time=Weapon versatility. It will be further hampered if this weapon has sluggish equip/unequip, or unswitchable(15KG weapon).

******Data analysis******

A balanced LMG shall be similar to medium-tier ARs in DPS. (If it reached or exceeded SCAR's dps then there will be "replace all" issues) This can be either a stat replica of medium-tier ARs like AK(40*600rpm), or any other numbers that the multiplier is equal or near the referred AR. 25*960 or 30*800 or 40*600 or 50*480 all works since the multiplier are the same as 24,000.

A balanced LMG shall hold the greatest sustainability cause MGs (modern LMG) are made to do so. Upon the rof is determined the magazine size is the ONLY stat that's linked to it. A big mag is a must, especially for high rof types. (If you want to design a WW2 hard hitting MG with LOW magazine count, like the ZB26 or type 99, then make it LOW.)

Reload time=Weapon versatility. LMGs are heavy weapons. The reloads shall be long. The sluggish equip/unequip and unswitchable(15KG) can be added too.

******End of calculation data******

The LMG (modern LMG) is designed to hold ammo of at least 2 AR magazines in its mag, and reload twice as slow. To compensate for the advantage of the big mag the DPS can be nerfed to T3 ar standards while this weapons holds a T4 orientation. If it's orientated at T3, then make the DPS to be T2 ar standards.

To my opinion, the stoner 63A is misplaced as a T4 weapon. Its performance is very similar to P90 in SWAT hand which is a T3 weapon. It is NOT 15KG (I vote against the T4 LMG being pairable with SCAR), it does NOT have ammopool which worths its weight and tier (T4 weapons usually carry the most damage in its ammo pool. For unperked SCAR it's 50*360=18,000. For nowadays 63A it's 25*575=14,375, which is far from SCAR but similar to AK's 40*330=13,200.). I'd recommend it reorientated as T3 and let it compete with AK instead of SCAR.

I don't agree with one single idea you propose here. An „unswitchable“ weapon, once the magazine is depleted doesn't make any sense. The player would either reload before the weapon gets into unswitchable mode or he would get ****ed over by nonsense game mechanics.

Also I wonder where you get that 15 kg idea from. The operating manual of the Stoner 63 A states a „firing weight" of 7,3 kg(100 rounds, sling and bipod) "“ although the ingame version has no bipod and seems to represent a configuration how the NAVY SEALs used that gun in the vietnam war, preferably due to its extremely light weight.

Also your general conception of what a LMG is supposed to be is way off. There are many different forms of LMG's in history. Sometimes an LMG is only an assault rifle with an thicker barrel for better heat resistance and eventually a bipod. Sometimes a LMG is a weapon that isn't really light and the word "light" means only that it can be moved around on the battlefield by one single operator and isn't shooting from a gun carriage. But in our case of the Stoner 63 A we have an outstanding light weapon that was a special operations favourite, due to its extreme light weight.

Next thing is that you demand the ingame LMG to be in the DPS range of the AK 12 and that is an absolute no go because that would make it too easy to hose down scrakes in close quarters.

And I don't know why people get so stuck on that tier 1-4 box thinking. AFAIK the stoner is nowhere labelled as a „tier 4“. What does that even mean? Tier 4 is not the fleshpound killing class by any definition. There are only different price classes and that is for balancing how early in the game a certain gun is affordable. 1500 dosh just means that a player without team funding will usually be able to afford that gun at around wave 4. Making it cheaper would make the gun more likely to appear at wave 3 or even 2.

 

[Gladius]

People need to start to realize what an extremely little and light weight machinegun the Stoner 63 A is and get over their hollywood bias.

 

[Reallifeh8er]

Trust me, I won't buy that piece of garbage. I'm better off spending my 1.5k on actual good guns.

That's what I thought when the SWAT perk came out Not going to play that perk.

 

[I'm not a Robot]

I realize this is a message board and everyone has a right to an opinion but... Robot, your posts in here are downright ridiculous, lol.

Have fun playing SWAT I guess if that's what makes you happy.

I like commando, just not this crappy gun. We have enough guns for commando, thankfully, so I can completely ignore this peashooter. 1.5k is just not worth it to me for this gun. And it's imo, just not a t4 gun.

 

[Gladius]

And it's imo, just not a t4 gun.

Thats right. It's actually nowhere labelled as "tier 4".

 

[I'm not a Robot]

Thats right. It's actually nowhere labelled as "tier 4".

It's 1.5k. so I assume it is?! lol