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Dynamic adjusting of firing trajectories and its anomalies in RO2

Sarkis.

Grizzled Veteran
Jun 6, 2012
1,467
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In RO2 the bullet trajectory and hence the POI (Point of Impact) of Tank gunnery is self adjusting to always hit the POA (Point of Aim). Resulting in a Dynamic Firing Trajectory, for the purpose of making the game easier on the shooter. Requiring him only to aim the hit, instead of aiming the trajectory to make a hit. This makes tank gunnery, main gun, and coax MGs, extremely easy to the gunner, but extremely virtual and unrealistic, also bringing a set of anomalies. Gravity effects on ballistics in game do not suffer any alterations because of this, only the vertical POI is affected. Before GOTY, having your tank unleveled revealed the anomalies with much ease, but that has been fixed.

In RO2 infantry, the bullet trajectory is not ever self adjusting, but rather fixed, and hence those same anomalies don't exist and shooting is harder. However, the bullet origin, that in tank weaponry, comes from the gun's muzzle, in infantry small arms, comes from a point above of the aim trajectory vector's beginning. With the purpose of helping players shoot clean from nearby objects, that otherwise would obstruct the bullet path, for being right in front of the muzzle, that is generally frustrating in the real world, and ArmA games, until a person learns to adapt. The effect of this in the weapons is small, and it is a rather good compromise to making shooting more natural. But that comes with some issues.

Green for Point of Aim/Line of Sight
Red for in game trajectory and Point of Impact
Blue for how it would be in real life

TANKS:
Actual real gun/sight convergence has been ignored for the examples
Spoiler!

3 cases, in the first the difference in trajectory is hardly meaningful or noticeable. But in the second and 3rd cases, with the POA much closer, and hence a much bigger adjusted trajectory, the anomaly, of the bullet going left of the target, for the gun is mounted to the right of the sights, appears. In the seconds case, however, it is not noticed as bad as in the third case, where the bullet has a free travel path to describe.
Spoiler!

And with the main gun:
Spoiler!

So, depending on where you put your aim, the game will give you different bullet trajectories to help you out. Talk about holding your hand while you play... :rolleyes:
But it is not so terrible and only happens for tanks, and does not influence bullet drop. Another issue with tanks happens when firing the coax looking high, or even normally, that it becomes visible that hit impacts and tracers don't match.

INFANTRY SMALL ARMS:
Spoiler!

Pretty self explanatory. Giving a very virtual sensation of shooting in relation to real life. To very close targets (>10m) in real life, you'd be advised to put your POA slightly higher than your intended POI, or in the same place, to make up for the fact that the bullet comes out from the muzzle of the barrel, and not from your sights. In RO2 however, you must aim lower than the target, very slightly. And in the case the weapons had tracers, you'd see them leave from your eyes, instead of the barrel, as already happens with the MGs.

HEAVY MACHINE GUNS:
Spoiler!

When you are looking trough the sights, you will clearly see the tracers leaving from your eyes, slighty above them in fact. However when looking from above the gun, out of IS, you will see the tracer leaving from the barrel. That has the effect of changing your POI, drastically in the Maxim, and slightly in the MG34. Giving you 2 different trajectories for the same gun, only by moving your virtual head and not the gun.

Now, none of the things presented here can be considered a bug. There is no bug, these are all ''features'' of the game, that would have to be changed or improved. And again comes the big question: Will TWI ignore this? Probably, because it has become dogma in these parts that adding content is more important than revising stuff like this. Or revising anything of major importance for that matter. ''The game is fine as it is!'' people will claim. Right, but it ain't.

Modders could probably fix the issues with the tanks and small arms, even HMGs. But then again, it is still is TWI's responsibility for having introduced these features in the first place, so perhaps it would be more wise for them to fix it. We can't count on modders alone to fix the game at all times, and sometimes things will be too complicated for them.

Will you fix these issues TWI? ArmA 2 has none of them cough cough.. :)
 
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In RO2 the bullet trajectory and hence the POI (Point of Impact) of Tank gunnery is self adjusting to always hit the POA (Point of Aim). Resulting in a Dynamic Firing Trajectory, for the purpose of making the game easier on the shooter. Requiring him only to aim the hit, instead of aiming the trajectory to make a hit. This makes tank gunnery, main gun, and coax MGs, extremely easy to the gunner, but extremely virtual and unrealistic, also bringing a set of anomalies.

...

Talk about holding your hand while you play... :rolleyes:

You really should do a little more testing and/or research before you attempt snark. Not only is sight parallax modeled:

ro2_main_gun_parallax.png

(The scorch marks on the left show shots that are clear, while the current aimpoint hits the wall)

...the difference in parallax between the main gun and coax is modeled:

ro2_coax_parallax.png

(Tank is in the same spot, top image has the coax obstructed by the wall, while the bottom is far enough over for it to clear. Wish I'd saved the unbuttoned viewpoint for this shot, as it showed the difference between main-gun and coax obstruction even more clearly)

The times it skews off to the left is a bug, and isn't related to having anything in front of your tank. It happens even with wide-open shots on Gumrak. It's a completely different issue.

INFANTRY SMALL ARMS:

HEAVY MACHINE GUNS:

These are one and the same, not two seperate issues. Firing in iron-sights view has the bullet come from the sights, firing in any other stance fires from the weapon barrel. In most cases, the difference is a couple centimeters. Modeling the difference in sight and muzzle height would be nice, but it's a fairly minor issue that you'd virtually never perceive in-game.

LIGHT MACHINE GUN GHOSTING:

That's a well-known bug. And yes, bug. The vertical angle of aim for MGs is already limited by the slope of what it's deployed on. The problem isn't that it uses the bipod as a pivot, it's that what is shown on various clients don't agree; On the shooter's side, they're at the proper angle, while on other people's side, not only is the shooter below the slope, the MG is angled up into the air. In essence, the MG stance looks correct for the angle you see the gun at, but the angle you see their gun at isn't the angle they see their gun at.

Will you fix these issues TWI? ArmA 2 has none of them cough cough.. :)

Of course, Arma 2 also doesn't have bipods.

...And RO2 doesn't have the tank-sight parallax issue you say it does.

...And the sight parallax for smallarms, while nice, is hardly an issue.

I also hopped on Arma 2 real quick to see if it did have the other features, such as the tank sight parallax that RO2 has. It's continued the trend of finding at least one thing that Arma does wrong every time I fire it up. In this case, they have the gunner's sight (GPS) for the M1A1 on the wrong side of the tank, and at such low magnification that you can see the end of the barrel. I generally don't care for rivet-counting, but for crap's sake, there's only one thing on the turret that looks even remotely like a sight...
 
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Ah, I see. When I saw your first in-game examples, with issues clearing an object on the right side of the gun, it looked like you were confusing auto-correction with sight parallax. That and the instant-hit trace were most of what you were giving examples of (Especially that second post). I assumed that was what you were talking about, because it's rather more frequent. The auto-correct has a limit in the code of 5 degrees. I don't know why they did that, as the difference between the corrected and uncorrected shots is fairly small, and with the exception of overpenetrating nearby thin objects, it's not something that shows up with any frequency.
 
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Excellent write-up! The last point should be high priority for TWI, as it is exploitable. Even worse, players exploit it without even knowing it.

Even worse than that, there are players who actually actively exploit the bug. I've seen a certain machine gunner set up in the same exact invulnerable spot on Fallen Fighters every single time the map comes up, racking up dozens of kills without retaliation.
 
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I'd very much like to see this tank thing squashed from the game. That together with the mouse controls for the turret, and it's amazing responsiveness make targeting infantry easier than it should. Some proper tracer modelling, differentiating night maps from day maps allied with the proper bullet origin in the muzzle and we would have ourselves a war game going. Right now is crazy, tracers leaving the eyes, the bullet going straight to the target instead of having a realistic trajectory. MG ghosting is probably a bug then, but also very important to have fixed. About I differentiating the HMG and the small arms issue, that is really the same, is because I understand that fixing small arms would probably be a little hardcore for some people, and the issue itself is very small, but for the HMGs the issue is a lot bigger, and there is the immersion killer from the tracers leaving your face, and the different trajectory introduced when you would expect/need it to be the same.
 
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I'd very much like to see all those issues fixed. The insta scan thinguie removed from the game. LMG ghosting problem fixed, and also be able to bayonet someone trough a window or over a fence. :)

The problem with the penetration system as well. Hits soft solid first and hence treats all other obstacles as soft, even if they are hard.. or so it goes. That is pretty killer.

Mekhazzio's old antilag mutator had many of these issues fixed. :confused:
 
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Mekhazzio's old antilag mutator had many of these issues fixed. :confused:

Yeah, the only one of those it didn't address was the third-person issues with the LMGs. I'm not sure why they tossed out most of the other changes. I guess they wanted to keep the original functionality in order to not increase the load on servers that don't run client-side. Of course, few servers make that choice...
 
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