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Discussion on Heroes/Leveling Cont

I said this a long time ago but it is lost on one of the many leveling discussions out there.

I like to have a leveling/perk system, although it need to be well implemented.

My take on the leveling would be: you can choose only 2 stat bonuses, heroes (the highest ranked on the server) can choose 3. The bonuses starts small like 1% and finish at 5 or 6%.

Simple and give the player a choice into what he wants to get depending on his playstyle or needs and doesnt give the higher ranked players an edge on everything.

And i think it is realistical because no soldier is equal, some run faster than you, some run longer distances, and the list goes on.
 
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I also agree that at the beginning, leveling up might help some players get used to the game, as I have a few friends who play games like OFP and ARMA, but they just couldn't understand how fun RO:OST was. I believe they just haven't spent enough time with it. So if leveling would help them get past those few days of "frustration", then I'm all for it!

Leveling will exacerbate the barrier to entry by exaggerating the skill differences between top-tier players and newbies.

I don't know about you, but that turns me off. In fact, that's the reason I haven't bought a single FPS with a leveling system since Call of Duty 4, which is a purchase I regretted making.

I also get turned off by having a disproportionate advantage over newbies. I often handicap myself by using inferior weapons or putting myself into a strategically disadvantageous position (e.g. trying to hipshoot corner campers with a bolt action rifle) to increase the challenge.

I neither enjoy having an artificial disadvantage nor having an artificial advantage. I want to know that I died because the other player is more skilled than I am or because the other player leveraged his use of tactics better than I did.
 
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I'd prefer unlocks if we are to have them ingame to allow you a wider selection of "Stat Choices".

Since not all people are equal in terms of muscle and condition, some can run faster but for as long etc. Some don't get bogged down by as much weight etc.

So add more options, but for every Bonus you get, you also get a Negative Effect, so instead of being better you can customize your Soldier. All in an appropiate Range ofc.

This would add another Layer of Choices to the game, but not giving a huge advantage to Players.



Thoughts ?
 
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I'd prefer unlocks if we are to have them ingame to allow you a wider selection of "Stat Choices".

Since not all people are equal in terms of muscle and condition, some can run faster but for as long etc. Some don't get bogged down by as much weight etc.

So add more options, but for every Bonus you get, you also get a Negative Effect, so instead of being better you can customize your Soldier. All in an appropiate Range ofc.

This would add another Layer of Choices to the game, but not giving a huge advantage to Players.



Thoughts ?

'Make it random' is the best way to implement what you said. Good idea but not manual.
 
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I'd prefer seeing "leveling up" consisting of unlocking additional outfits or looks so that I could be readily identified as being a "higher level", such as having a cool hat or maybe a C96 instead of a P38, instead of having super-duper awesome skills over new players.

Customization from leveling > advantages
 
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I'd prefer unlocks if we are to have them ingame to allow you a wider selection of "Stat Choices".

Since not all people are equal in terms of muscle and condition, some can run faster but for as long etc. Some don't get bogged down by as much weight etc.

So add more options, but for every Bonus you get, you also get a Negative Effect, so instead of being better you can customize your Soldier. All in an appropiate Range ofc.

This would add another Layer of Choices to the game, but not giving a huge advantage to Players.

Thoughts ?

Absolutely.

Hey here's an idea: it's a small difference right, high level to low? Why not give players the choice, if you choose to level you start from level 1 but if you choose not to you have everything unlocked, that way players who want to rank up can go and stat grind and the rest can just play the game. I mean the only reason anyone would dislike that idea is because they want to, over time, become better than other people by ranking up right? If the fun is in ranking up and working towards a goal it then it shouldn't matter, and everyone is happy :)
 
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You guys are so rutted into the leveling system you have been fed.

Sad, especially considering RO should be introducing something significant and new, instead of the same old tired thing.

I am refuted on this point before I hit post, because the minor league gamers require leveling paradigms.

God money...
 
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Partially because I can't entirely understand your english, I don't see how "leveling works."

For instance, I did not understand your reference to Enemy Territory...are you referring to incentives for playing through a match? I just need clarification.

Thanks.
When they made Enemy Territory, this very same discussion came up on their boards.

At the time I argued that unlocks suck.
I don't like the idea of one player being given a competative advantage over another. Especially when in the case of Enemy Territory it is the better player that gets the most advantages.
More kills= more xps = bigger guns = a viscious circle.

So noobs who are already at a disadvantage for being noobs, are now at more of a disadvantage.

Having played the game quite a bit since then, I no longer feel this way.
It works.
When I play I don't in anyway feel I am getting beaten because my Nemesis has more XP than me and when I get an upgrade myself, I am pleased about it.

It works.

At the end of the campaign, the xps all reset. It's not persistent in any way but rather a reward for playing through the entire server rotation.

I've played in far too many games where one side on a server starts winning and with every win, more and more of the players on the losing side drop out. Making them win more. Until in the end you have 24 players vs 7 and no one is having much fun at all.
Unlocks in Enemy Territory give you just that little bit of incentive not to server hop.



With regards to the level of competiton, when you've been top ranked player in the top ranked clan, in any number of games over the last few decades.... where can you go?

One place you can't go is a random server with a load of newbies in it. You just ruin their game.
And what if you wish to play casually?

What if I just want to log in and play a game after work one night, and not have to first play on a few servers... play a few games and note who is the best players and then contact them, register at their websites, download Mumble version x.3 call them by their Ranks and UG. No.

Ranking systems may not be fool proof, but they are a step in the right direction in my opinion. A tool for you to use at your own discretion.

I think in America's Army for example you can set your server not to allow noobs in. Or set it to only allow noobs in.
And while an honour score may not be an indication of a players ability, it certainly is one of his experience.

The server list is there and you still get to choose which server you wish to join... or your clan server or whatever... but you have an extra inisght into what the level of competition in each one on the list might be before you join.

Think of it as one more tool to help you match make.
 
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Thank you for the clarification <3
At the time I argued that unlocks suck.
I don't like the idea of one player being given a competative advantage over another. Especially when in the case of Enemy Territory it is the better player that gets the most advantages.
More kills= more xps = bigger guns = a viscious circle.

So noobs who are already at a disadvantage for being noobs, are now at more of a disadvantage.
I'll hang on to this
It works.

At the end of the campaign, the xps all reset. It's not persistent in any way but rather a reward for playing through the entire server rotation.
Oy forgive me my ignorance. Which did you mean:

Reset per round,
Reset per map,
Reset per full rotation, e.g. after rotating through the full rotation of maps
I've played in far too many games where one side on a server starts winning and with every win, more and more of the players on the losing side drop out. Making them win more. Until in the end you have 24 players vs 7 and no one is having much fun at all.
Unlocks in Enemy Territory give you just that little bit of incentive not to server hop.
This is the meat of your post, I think, so I'll place the majority of my response here.

First, I'll say: I would not find a per-round XP wipe as egregious as permanent, persistent, global level system a la the Heroes system in RO2 as per beta demo footage.

In a way, as a gameplay mechanic, that sort of reminds me of Warcraft 3's hero levelups. If you're not familiar, you basically get heroes that gain XP the more you dominate your enemies. It's progressive, and pawns, but you start out at 0 XP per match. So scrubs start out at level 1 and so do kingleetz in gosu clan Z.

I don't mind it, because it emphasizes that you simply do not lose units and you take care of your hero units, else you get dominated per match.

I should mention, however, that in War3 the advantage you gain from winning a sortie is progressive, and the result is that people leave at the first sign of trouble. It's become a matter of courtesy when playing War3. First people say "GG," and then as they become irritable for being forced to work for a victory that was already in the cards 5 minutes ago, that changes to "GG GTFO" and so on.

The way to change that is to make XP gain persistent past each match. The result is that players have an incentive to play each match to completion.

This introduces another problem, however, which I have made the case for here: [url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=50839[/URL]

In a nutshell, that will make players more inflexible about balancing teamstacks. COD, for instance, gives bonus XP at the end of the round. That makes people stay even when they're getting pawned, but it also makes people in teamstacked lobbies sit tight and enjoy the XP farm.

Double edge sword to say the least.

Do tell me which one you meant.
With regards to the level of competiton, when you've been top ranked player in the top ranked clan, in any number of games over the last few decades.... where can you go?

One place you can't go is a random server with a load of newbies in it. You just ruin their game.
And what if you wish to play casually?

Oh god, lol, tell me you're not talking about rank-restricted lobbies. That kind of **** made Killzone 2 unplayable.

PS, I happen to know many clan players that had a tendency to join pub matches and teamstack hard for the victory rush. I can attest that it certainly helps burn off some steam to pawn scrubs after getting dominated in a clan v clan match.

I think in America's Army for example you can set your server not to allow noobs in. Or set it to only allow noobs in.
And while an honour score may not be an indication of a players ability, it certainly is one of his experience.
D:
You are talking about rank-restricted servers.

Nagghhh.

No, dude, part of the fun of playing FPS is playing in a free lobby. You're still clear to go join a pub match or go play on a locked server for clan matches.

Ugh, I can tell you, my game experience will be immediately diminished the first time I see "you can't play on this server you're too high/low rank"

The server list is there and you still get to choose which server you wish to join... or your clan server or whatever... but you have an extra inisght into what the level of competition in each one on the list might be before you join.

Think of it as one more tool to help you match make.

anguish-7741111_medium.jpg


Matchmaking is horrible, dude.

Console gaming straight up sucks because of it
 
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