But would most players be aware of the fact that both parties dont get the same amount of reinforcements? My guess is not.
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Tactics Defense: Is it a myth?
- Thread starter DingBat
- Start date
But would most players be aware of the fact that both parties dont get the same amount of reinforcements? My guess is not.
That information could be made available in the mission description?
Sometimes I think that a small manual covering basic military tactics suited for RO should be included in the game..
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Gorlitz and Berezina are both great in that way, but I have trouble finding them.
I think there is a key distinction between an aggressive (maybe even overly aggressive) attacker and a rambo. In pubs you need aggressive attackers to lead by example, and often get behind positions and seriosily soften up defenders who don't know what to do. This involves dieing a lot, but this is because often your the only person attacking, so every defender is shooting at you. In a 32 player server like Basovka where you have to take a position, there is no problem with this IMO.
I'd say a Rambo is the kind of guy who can't stop attacking. He is the kind of guy who will not hold a cover position when the team is taking the last objective, but instead charge a staircase or w/e and swing the cap back to the defenders.
Maybe there is just such a disjoint between the two types of players in pubs. Half of them never know when to move up (or attack) and are sniping from windows over a cap zone that has long since been cleared, while the other half do not know when to sit tight and either defend/clear a cap zone. Some players can switch between the two as necassary, but many players are either strictly one or the other.
I think there is a key distinction between an aggressive (maybe even overly aggressive) attacker and a rambo. In pubs you need aggressive attackers to lead by example, and often get behind positions and seriosily soften up defenders who don't know what to do. This involves dieing a lot, but this is because often your the only person attacking, so every defender is shooting at you. In a 32 player server like Basovka where you have to take a position, there is no problem with this IMO.
I'd say a Rambo is the kind of guy who can't stop attacking. He is the kind of guy who will not hold a cover position when the team is taking the last objective, but instead charge a staircase or w/e and swing the cap back to the defenders.
Maybe there is just such a disjoint between the two types of players in pubs. Half of them never know when to move up (or attack) and are sniping from windows over a cap zone that has long since been cleared, while the other half do not know when to sit tight and either defend/clear a cap zone. Some players can switch between the two as necassary, but many players are either strictly one or the other.
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In my experience the game has always been better when one or more experienced players discuss attack/defend tactics over VOIP.
Even if none of us pubbers answer over the mic it seems to help a lot in coordinating the team.
You veterans need to tell us newbies what to do and where to go.
Of course some of us won't listen or we are preoccupied with other things (figuring out the keys we have to press etc.) in order to give you a hand in the fight. But some of us will listen and will be very happy to go protect the objective and die to the grenade-rain
Of course new players are trigger-happy and we don't have a clue about this game's objectives. We just want to see if we can kill something with our skills acquired over the years in other FPS games.
Unfortunately, as we soon learn we may flush those "skills" down the toilet asap because RO requires a whole different skill set in order to be successful.
The usual FPS game is built up on a "push forward and kill the red guys" strategy. Attack is the best defense, and this works well in many situations - even in RO sometimes.
On K
Even if none of us pubbers answer over the mic it seems to help a lot in coordinating the team.
You veterans need to tell us newbies what to do and where to go.
Of course some of us won't listen or we are preoccupied with other things (figuring out the keys we have to press etc.) in order to give you a hand in the fight. But some of us will listen and will be very happy to go protect the objective and die to the grenade-rain
Of course new players are trigger-happy and we don't have a clue about this game's objectives. We just want to see if we can kill something with our skills acquired over the years in other FPS games.
Unfortunately, as we soon learn we may flush those "skills" down the toilet asap because RO requires a whole different skill set in order to be successful.
The usual FPS game is built up on a "push forward and kill the red guys" strategy. Attack is the best defense, and this works well in many situations - even in RO sometimes.
On K
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People who attack also don't get HOW to attack often. I'll regularly see people exposing themselves to fire unnecessarily WHILE their team is capping. I don't get this AT ALL except that people are impatient and just wanna killz0rz sum d00dz.
Likewise, I think they approach defense the same way. Just hang back, lie in wait, and let them come to you. But no, folks have to ATTACKATTACKATTACK and then get themselves killed so there's one less defender in the cap zone. Or they figure "Ah, I'll help the team by preventing the enemy from getting into the cap zone, by fighting them outside of it before they get there." All well and good, but check your map once in a while, will ya? IF you see the cap zone flashing, get your *** in there.
Likewise, I think they approach defense the same way. Just hang back, lie in wait, and let them come to you. But no, folks have to ATTACKATTACKATTACK and then get themselves killed so there's one less defender in the cap zone. Or they figure "Ah, I'll help the team by preventing the enemy from getting into the cap zone, by fighting them outside of it before they get there." All well and good, but check your map once in a while, will ya? IF you see the cap zone flashing, get your *** in there.
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Alphanut,
Its good to see pubbers with that kind of atittude, I love pubbers like you =D.
They make the whole war experience better because now you have vets and the occasional player working together. I tell you its an awesome feeling when you finally get some pubbers to form a line of defence alongside the vets =)
Even so, vets can get cocky too sometimes, trusting their experience a bit too much and getting themselves killed but oh well, a cap won't be a cap if the guy next to you doesnt pop up his head only to get it blown off. It gives you that extra bit of incentive to NOT pop your head up ^^
Its good to see pubbers with that kind of atittude, I love pubbers like you =D.
They make the whole war experience better because now you have vets and the occasional player working together. I tell you its an awesome feeling when you finally get some pubbers to form a line of defence alongside the vets =)
Even so, vets can get cocky too sometimes, trusting their experience a bit too much and getting themselves killed but oh well, a cap won't be a cap if the guy next to you doesnt pop up his head only to get it blown off. It gives you that extra bit of incentive to NOT pop your head up ^^
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Very ften, many people at Tula Outskirts counter-attack enemy even when recapturin isn possible also there artillery fire. Sad to see upper right corner, about 10-15 Soviet players killed by Axis players in a row
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I have not had much time to play lately, but it puts a big smile on my face that when I join a server I still see a lot of veteran names popping up that I know from the early days. Most of them probably don't know me but I remember those who have helped me in one or the other way along my learning path in RO. And of course I remember those shooting my head off time after time.
So long, take care and see you all on the field soon!
~Al
I have to agree with other comments on this: your kind of player is great to play alongside with, be ye a veteran or a complete newb. Still, the newbs are not to be underestimated, I've seen a bunch of them execute a last second breach-in into the construction hall on Kras that totally blew the enemy away. Really, I just told them the general idea of how I thought we should do a last desperate attempt, they listened, held back until the defenders wouldn't sit tight but started attacking us and then we attacked all at once (with roughly one minute remaining). The guy holding the MG almost made me cry of joy as the first thing he did after entering the room was to lay down and start spraying away at the russian spawn exits. They seriously killed off 5 out of 6 defenders within 3 seconds with that attack (grenade, enter, spread out etc)... ah, the memories...
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Agreed Manny..
I think it's more a people problem.. most people don't really want to sit tight and defend.. esp if it's alittle on the quiet side..
Maps like Basovka have 'active' defense simply because they are linear, and if you want to shoot someone, you better be in/near the defense point.
Split the objectives, or give the Sov's something to (re)capture, and it's all over.. some people will just go wherever.
I think another issue with 'defense' is (i hate to say it) respawning. I'm a big fan of the wave/respawn setup, but realize if you have the 'perfect MG' spot that's defensive and hidden, it'll only last until you gun down a few people, and those same players smarten up to where you are, pace up, and croak you. Such is the same..
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That is the reason for the perfect MG spot not to be on the frontline, but rather a wee bit back or up one of the flanks. Like with the three bunkers at Manikkala (or whatever the finnish winter map is called): place the russian mgs either behind the bunkers or on either of the flanks. The germans reaching the bunkers will have their minds fully occupied with not getting killed by all the other defenders, so it doesn't really matter if they know where you are. They simply can't focus on picking you off. The other defenders cover you by keeping the germans on their toes, and you help them out by mercilessly gunning down any attacker who reaches the capzone. MGers sitting in one of the bunkers, shooting at people running across the riverbed will suck a german 7.62 bullet before they can say "Ivan".
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Yeah, the obvious MG spots are, well, obvious on most maps. Defensively you're better off providing enfilading fire if you can or at least attacking from a not-so-obvious position. Or just shift position frequently. But then, good MG usage is just as much about distraction/suppression as it is killing.
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It all comes down to the players.
In public play coordinated defense is something that doesn't often happen. Combine this with maps that are hard to defend without coordination and there you have it. However there are those magical times when you have a core of veteran players on the defensive side spreading out and being where they need to be, putting severe hurt on the attackers without even needing to communicate. Like for example cutting off the alley way and stair entrance on Kessel meaning the Russians are funnelled straight into the warehouse and smashed frontally.
Then there's clan play and totally overwhelming an attack with well used rifle and MG fire while the SMG's roam arround repelling any break throughs. I find the trick with the MG is that he has to have support, ie. take Basovka for instance, generally the MG has a short life span on the Russian team. But with a good solid and spread out defense putting pressure on the Germans suddenly he is able to not worry about his flanks and concentrate on laying down some serious fire power. However you are less likely to see this in a public server.
So once again it's all about the players, there are some folks who reckon the maps should be changed to give the defensive side more of a break but personally I think this would only tip them totally the other way when it comes to clan battles. Fine the way they are I say.
In public play coordinated defense is something that doesn't often happen. Combine this with maps that are hard to defend without coordination and there you have it. However there are those magical times when you have a core of veteran players on the defensive side spreading out and being where they need to be, putting severe hurt on the attackers without even needing to communicate. Like for example cutting off the alley way and stair entrance on Kessel meaning the Russians are funnelled straight into the warehouse and smashed frontally.
Then there's clan play and totally overwhelming an attack with well used rifle and MG fire while the SMG's roam arround repelling any break throughs. I find the trick with the MG is that he has to have support, ie. take Basovka for instance, generally the MG has a short life span on the Russian team. But with a good solid and spread out defense putting pressure on the Germans suddenly he is able to not worry about his flanks and concentrate on laying down some serious fire power. However you are less likely to see this in a public server.
So once again it's all about the players, there are some folks who reckon the maps should be changed to give the defensive side more of a break but personally I think this would only tip them totally the other way when it comes to clan battles. Fine the way they are I say.
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I understand your point exactly - however to play devil's advocate - to defend without the opportunity to counter-attack is un-german.
Outstanding.
In all reality, I love defending... ive always been a defensive minded player in any wargame I play FPS or not. They called it camping in DOD Source though...
But for the average player, defending is boring.
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Outstanding.
In all reality, I love defending... ive always been a defensive minded player in any wargame I play FPS or not. They called it camping in DOD Source though...
But for the average player, defending is boring.
Unless you are playing as the machinegunner
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Unless you are playing as the machinegunner
Ive been called a camper as an MGer! They were mad becuase I was denying the entire chruch from them on Avalanche.
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People who say that are likely coming from a deathmatch experience. I always camped there, too. God I used to LOVE camping in Duke Nukem 3D. I'd load up a transporter with pipebombs or hide above it with a rocket launcher. ahhh, memories.
Anyway, yeah, I tend to be a more defense-oriented player myself.
The really sad part about people not being patient enough to defend is that, if they actually defended, they'd get plenty of action. People would come to them, and they could kill them more easily because they're concealed, their weapon is rested, etc.
Anyway, yeah, I tend to be a more defense-oriented player myself.
The really sad part about people not being patient enough to defend is that, if they actually defended, they'd get plenty of action. People would come to them, and they could kill them more easily because they're concealed, their weapon is rested, etc.
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I have to admit I've NEVER understood the camper thing, even back in my Quake/Quake2 days.
In deathmatch, a camper is someone whose location you KNOW. Ergo, he's a target and and easier kill than those moving about. How can calling someone a camper be a bad thing? You WANT people to be campers, don't you?
When someone utters the word "camper", they're whining, plain and simple.
In deathmatch, a camper is someone whose location you KNOW. Ergo, he's a target and and easier kill than those moving about. How can calling someone a camper be a bad thing? You WANT people to be campers, don't you?
When someone utters the word "camper", they're whining, plain and simple.
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Yes, although in some instances, I can sort of understand the whine. As I said, I used to play Duke Nukem 3D waaaaay back when, and found several fantastic camping spots on various maps. The problem was that in those spots I was practically impossible to dislodge, so if you came anywhere near me, you were basically dead meat.
If I refused to come down from my perch, you were pretty much screwed. In that instance, the game simply becomes not much fun, unless you're willing to try to wait me out. And when I was camping, I could be VERY patient.
Now, arguably, the fault there lies with the mappers, for not making maps where you can take a much longer route to get to the camper, rather than only having one way to take him out. But in the midst of a game, I can see where it'd get frustrating and boring really fast.
Kind of like you and your big brother, who weighs a good 20lbs more than you and is probably about half a foot taller than you playing tackle football against each other. After a while, the game just won't be fun when your brother keeps beating the snot out of you and it's pretty much a foregone conclusion.
The problem, however, is that although the maps improved over time, people's attitudes didn't, and the term "camper" came to mean "someone who isn't running around like a headless chicken hopped up on sugary cereals and speed." So whereas at one point, it was code for "Hey man, this is getting boring and I'm not having fun anymore because it's basically impossible to kill you", now it's come to mean "You don't play the game the way I want you to play, even though it's perfectly easy for me to take you out, and this angers me."
If I refused to come down from my perch, you were pretty much screwed. In that instance, the game simply becomes not much fun, unless you're willing to try to wait me out. And when I was camping, I could be VERY patient.
Now, arguably, the fault there lies with the mappers, for not making maps where you can take a much longer route to get to the camper, rather than only having one way to take him out. But in the midst of a game, I can see where it'd get frustrating and boring really fast.
Kind of like you and your big brother, who weighs a good 20lbs more than you and is probably about half a foot taller than you playing tackle football against each other. After a while, the game just won't be fun when your brother keeps beating the snot out of you and it's pretty much a foregone conclusion.
The problem, however, is that although the maps improved over time, people's attitudes didn't, and the term "camper" came to mean "someone who isn't running around like a headless chicken hopped up on sugary cereals and speed." So whereas at one point, it was code for "Hey man, this is getting boring and I'm not having fun anymore because it's basically impossible to kill you", now it's come to mean "You don't play the game the way I want you to play, even though it's perfectly easy for me to take you out, and this angers me."
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