Crossbow is a monstrous tier 2 weapon

[DoctorDragon]

In testing out the Crossbow last night, I came to the conclusion that it really is on a par with the Boomstick in terms of tier 2 awesomeness. Ok, so it's not as good as dealing with hordes of trash zeds due to having to reload after each bolt and there are fewer bolts carried than shells for the Boomstick, and it's almost twice the weight. However, it's the bigger zeds where the Boomstick drops in performance compared to the Crossbow.

In HoE solo mode conditions, a Scrake died in just 2 bolts to the head; the first one even stunned the Scrakes for a few seconds (great news for Support players!). But what's even more impressive than that, is that it also took just 2 bolts to decapitate a Fleshpound! At first I was thinking that maybe the bolt by default does an absolutely absurd amount of damage but when crunching the numbers in my head, I realised that it wasn't possible for them both to die to just 2 bolts while the damage to the Fleshpound was halved.

So to confirm this, I tested it on 6P HoE conditions. Scrakes took 5 bolts to the head to die, but Fleshpounds only needed 4! This confirms that the Crossbow bolts deal in piercing damage. Needless to say, everything below a Scrake also died to a single headshot. So for solo mode Scrakes to die in 2 bolts and 6P Scrakes dying in 5, the minimum amount of damage a bolt to the head deals has to be at least 375 damage. And bear in mind, these numbers are off-perk; we don't even know what passive bonuses or skills the SS perk will do to buff this sort of damage output!

My biggest concern with the Crossbow though (apart from being seemingly overpowered) even as an off-perk choice, let alone the SS perk not being around yet, is it risks making the Demo look incredibly redundant. Think about it: 4 headshots to decap a 6P HoE Fleshpound solo with a long range tier 2? A lvl 25 Demo needs 6 rockets to take one down in the same conditions and that's if they're not swapping between explosives just to crank up the DPS. The Crossbow reloads quicker, can deal considerable damage to head health, can stun Scrakes as well and is considerably cheaper AND lighter to carry than an RPG-7 or the other Demo gear combined.

In fact, I can easily imagine a Demo player making the Crossbow their 'main' weapon while using C4 (and Nukes) and the HX25 to deal with trash zeds. Think how easy it would be to stun Fleshpounds with dynamite while you (and maybe others too) fire away with Crossbow bolts.

 

[Azukki]

There's a 1.1 headshot damage multiplier; the base damage seems to be 350 piercing.

Even if we underestimate sharp's potential capabilities drastically, let's say +1% headshot damage per level is all he gets, even that will be enough for the xbow to 3shot FPs and 4shot SCs on 6pHoE.

They took out dynamite FP stuns with this update. undone in hotfix

 

[infntnub]

It's an Xbow... it sounds like it's doing what it should be doing in comparison to its KF1 counterpart.

Maybe a marginal nerf once the SS perk is released. But 4 bolts to a FP head and 5 to a scrake head doesn't sound completely out of reason.

It's a range weapon designed for sniping; it would be pretty worthless if it took 10-12 bolts to do the job it is intended for lol.

 

[Cinderblocks]

It's an Xbow... it sounds like it's doing what it should be doing in comparison to its KF1 counterpart.

Maybe a marginal nerf once the SS perk is released. But 4 bolts to a FP head and 5 to a scrake head doesn't sound completely out of reason.

It's a range weapon designed for sniping; it would be pretty worthless if it took 10-12 bolts to do the job it is intended for lol.

It's much more useful in mid-close range because zed head sway makes distant shots pretty darn hard. It's good that there's some skill to be developed here.

 

[infntnub]

In fact, I can easily imagine a Demo player making the Crossbow their 'main' weapon while using C4 (and Nukes) and the HX25 to deal with trash zeds. Think how easy it would be to stun Fleshpounds with dynamite while you (and maybe others too) fire away with Crossbow bolts.

dynamite stun no longer works based on what is being written in other threads since the update :s

 

[bass361]

It seems like the demo is being designed more around big splash damage for trash clearing instead of his beefy KF1 original design. Now this might not be a bad thing if he can simply buy a 200 dosh LAR, or a 650 dosh bow, because he will still have the best trash DPS with stun lock capabilities. Maybe it is better this way? I'm not sure, but either way I think it's a solid step in the right direction, in terms of actual mechanics, and also makes off perk weapons a better choice.

 

[Mariuhana3k]

in kf 1 the xbow also takes for shots to decap 6 man hoe fp, still the demo is the better fp counter because m32 + nade combos are faster, less risky and can deal with more than one fp at a time.

the problem is the demo is too weak, not the xbow too strong.

also at least it takes 5 instead of 2 shots for sc. btw can you chain stun sc on hoe 6 man?

 

[Shining Wolf]

I'm assuming the crossbow is using the values for a fully realized Sharp. Otherwise... Yeah, that'd be ridiculous for a t2.

I'm happy it's means sharp is good without having a LOL SCRAKE VAPORIZED level KF1 crossbow, though.

It seems like the demo is being designed more around big splash damage for trash clearing instead of his beefy KF1 original design. Now this might not be a bad thing if he can simply buy a 200 dosh LAR, or a 650 dosh bow, because he will still have the best trash DPS with stun lock capabilities. Maybe it is better this way? I'm not sure, but either way I think it's a solid step in the right direction, in terms of actual mechanics, and also makes off perk weapons a better choice.

Thing is, if that was the case, Demo would have the M32. He has all single shot stuff.

 

[2Clicks]

It seems like the demo is being designed more around big splash damage for trash clearing instead of his beefy KF1 original design. Now this might not be a bad thing if he can simply buy a 200 dosh LAR, or a 650 dosh bow, because he will still have the best trash DPS with stun lock capabilities. Maybe it is better this way? I'm not sure, but either way I think it's a solid step in the right direction, in terms of actual mechanics, and also makes off perk weapons a better choice.

I wouldnt say TW have any sort of long-term vision/design of their game. They look to be moving in increments and responding to their analytical data without actually making any assessment to the reality of how the game is being played. Just my observation ofc.

The removal of the stun mechanic seems to me a reaction to negate how players can render the most powerful non-boss zed useless with what is essentially a 50$ piece of kit. In hindsight maybe the devs themselves would say it was a flaw in their design/decision making to include it from release. :/

Personally I would have suggested they not make stun a 100% effective mechanic but then.... what do I know! ^^

 

[Rocker Fox]

I wouldnt say TW have any sort of long-term vision/design of their game. They look to be moving in increments and responding to their analytical data without actually making any assessment to the reality of how the game is being played. Just my observation ofc.

The removal of the stun mechanic seems to me a reaction to negate how players can render the most powerful non-boss zed useless with what is essentially a 50$ piece of kit. In hindsight maybe the devs themselves would say it was a flaw in their design/decision making to include it from release. :/

Personally I would have suggested they not make stun a 100% effective mechanic but then.... what do I know! ^^

True but two big arguments with that.

For starters dealing with large enemies was pretty much clearly stated as Demo's job. Considering the low ammo pool and high alpha as well as stun ability the demo should be hitting large things. Saying that it's only due to a 50$ grenade is massively trivializing it since to do it properly you need to combo and swap weapons. The reason it worked at all is because demo has that stun. If their case was to rework then it should have came with something else to compensate the loss of the stun.

Second, how is the crossbow being able to drop stun after stun any better? Yeah, it costs more, it has weight, i get that but with the reload combined with the number of bolts you get you can pretty much perma stun lock anything you feel like while doing a fair bit of damage, also being able to do the same with the LAR, a tier 1 weapon. If the intent was to remove an easy stun then why have the x-bow and LAR?

 

[silverlighted]

From Yoshiro's comments and some observations made by railgun (I think) in the dynamite nerf thread, it seems like this wasn't intentional.

 

[mrnok14l]

Ammo too cheap, should be 15-20 per bolt IMO.

 

[2Clicks]

True but two big arguments with that.

For starters dealing with large enemies was pretty much clearly stated as Demo's job. Considering the low ammo pool and high alpha as well as stun ability the demo should be hitting large things. Saying that it's only due to a 50$ grenade is massively trivializing it since to do it properly you need to combo and swap weapons. The reason it worked at all is because demo has that stun. If their case was to rework then it should have came with something else to compensate the loss of the stun.

Second, how is the crossbow being able to drop stun after stun any better? Yeah, it costs more, it has weight, i get that but with the reload combined with the number of bolts you get you can pretty much perma stun lock anything you feel like while doing a fair bit of damage, also being able to do the same with the LAR, a tier 1 weapon. If the intent was to remove an easy stun then why have the x-bow and LAR?

If I said "virtually" renders the FP useless... would that be better? Bc when it is used it effectively takes the FP out of the game w/o the team breaking a sweat. Yes ofc that means the team need to know what to do to ensure the situation goes in favour of the demo but, once thats done - C4, RPG and some nades and its goodnight!

Im reserving judgement on the xbow and Lar. If you remember this post (unlikely) after the next perk update (after the sharpie), lets see if those get nerfed too!

In the meantime I would ask if the stun mechanic is being shifted to the xbow will other perks be able to stun?

And if not why is it solely under the remit of a Sharpie? That doesnt necessarily match the definition of the perk. I.e. skillful in firing weapons.

 

[Rocker Fox]

If I said "virtually" renders the FP useless... would that be better? Bc when it is used it effectively takes the FP out of the game w/o the team breaking a sweat. Yes ofc that means the team need to know what to do to ensure the situation goes in favour of the demo but, once thats done - C4, RPG and some nades and its goodnight!

Ehh, may be true but at the same time how many demo players have you seen that can actually do this? It still requires skill and it's the same deal with zerker and making both the scrake and fp look like dizzy spinning idiots while doing his thing.

I do agree with you assessment of the LAR and Xbow though, bit to early to tell how they will turn out but i am curious about the stuns on both of them.

 

[Shining Wolf]

Ammo too cheap, should be 15-20 per bolt IMO.

We haven't even seen the last two weapons yet. The context for the other sharp weapons is important given how the last weapon is going to be even better for killing big zeds. Probably better than duel magnums.

 

[Difficulty]

So to confirm this, I tested it on 6P HoE conditions. Scrakes took 5 bolts to the head to die, but Fleshpounds only needed 4!

Weird. Why is it not the other way around? The FP should be harder to take down.

 

[Kothre]

Weird. Why is it not the other way around? The FP should be harder to take down.

Fleshpounds have a 1.5 piercing (and explosive) damage vulnerability; scrakes do not. If you think that's weird, keep in mind fleshpounds take half damage from everything else in the game except microwaves, where they take just full damage.