Crew Shock

[R1G4M0RT1Z]

I think that it would be very good to have more effect when tanks are penetrated or glanced. The reason I say this, is because if you are in the process of reloading, a shell glances off of your armour, it is going to shake your tank like mad, and you are probably going to drop the shell you are trying to reload. I know this would be very hard to implement in a game, but I think that when you are penetrated or glanced it should slow down what you are doing. Also I think it would be interesting to have things like turret jams when penetrated, because that could happen. I also love the idea of crew casualties, which would add a lot to the game, in my opinion.

 

[Sgt.Rock]

bump, BRING THIS THREAD BACK TO LIFE.


I just think it should get a second glancing after a run in I had with a Stug in Orel. I put a round into the front side of a stug with a T34/85 from 700m, only to have him immediatly after the hit to fire back and one shot me.

Even with team-tanking, the time between my hit and his shot was so little, the tank wouldnt have had time to reverse. Had he gone into shock, we would have had time to either back up, possibly reload another shot, or have one of my other two buddies finish him off.

 

[gonzman]

The sheer sound of having a shell smash off the side of your steel tank would be enough to shock anybody even for a moment, stick your head in a bucket and get somebody to smash it and you'll know what I mean.

Something should be done to effect those who's tanks are hit (by anything remotely strong)

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

with the distances in game, we shoud not have any richochets at all.

Even the Panzer IV, shoud be able to penetrate the IS2 on Arad from near evry direction, with at least the second or third hitting shoot.

Most tank fights in the eastfront took place on ranges beyond 1000m and thats where richochets REALY come in to play, cause the velocitcy from a long 75mm gun or 88 is high enough to penetrate the armor from any soviet tank any range below 1000m.

red orchestra armor model, isnt working right, not even near realistic. You can go to Orel, that has some REALY realistic ranges there, at least the most realistic so far we have in game, take a T34/76 and get in fight with some tiger or panther there, count how much richochets you have from your T34 armor, and check what distance it is (bigest you can see on that map is, if i believe 1000m), this was typical distance for germans to destroy soviet armor, at least early/mid war soviet armor without any heavy richochets at all. Panthers had the most accurate optics and a formidable gun with great ability in armor penetration. Practically, from evry archived shot a panther fired, near evry time, the second one was a hit (of course, not always penetrating).

The tanks in game ... are fun, but often frustrating and a "who clicks first and/or faster" game. I know Ro Dev Ram, stated that the tank-health is NOT hit point based, but in 90% of the time it feels that way. When you get in fights with a tiger and IS2, and the Tiger is a bit angled, its near always about, who shoots first and realoads his second shoot faster ...

 

[Harry S. Truman]

Two words solve this problem of tit-for-tat tank combat:

Team tanking.

Bingo! A good driver moves between shots and stops when he hears the reload complete. All the while keeping your armor profile towards the enemy. I would say 50% of follow up shots miss my tank as I move while they shoot. You can always own a solo tank this way as he misses more often and you get on his flank. Works everytime.....

 

[Sgt.Rock]

Bingo! A good driver moves between shots and stops when he hears the reload complete. All the while keeping your armor profile towards the enemy. I would say 50% of follow up shots miss my tank as I move while they shoot. You can always own a solo tank this way as he misses more often and you get on his flank. Works everytime.....

But what happens when your enemy is team tanking as well? Say you get the drop on IS2 from the flank, now he either one shots you, or shoots you then his driver hides the tank until the gunner reloads, all the while his front side is facing you now.


If you put a round that penetrated into the side of the crew compartment of a tank, it will take some time before they are able to recuperate.

 

[Heinz]

When RO meets Combatmission ... well, I will smile
My two favorites strongest features becomming one damn realistic experience.

here, here! CM models all that stuff very nicely. crew shock is/was a very realistic ocurrence to the crews of AFVs under fire.

 

[Harry S. Truman]

with the distances in game, we shoud not have any richochets at all.

I'm not trying to be an ass here, but you seem to have very little understanding about "angle of impact" and it's effect on penetration. It doesn't take much angle to cause the kinetic energy of a penetrator to be deflected away. You assume that under a certain range, tanks just punch holes through each other like swiss cheese and this just isn't the reality of the situation.

 

[Harry S. Truman]

But what happens when your enemy is team tanking as well? Say you get the drop on IS2 from the flank, now he either one shots you, or shoots you then his driver hides the tank until the gunner reloads, all the while his front side is facing you now.


If you put a round that penetrated into the side of the crew compartment of a tank, it will take some time before they are able to recuperate.

Tactics. You need to learn them. If you get caught with your pants down, they are gonna get the first shot.

I very OFTEN exit my tank so I can look over a rise, around a building or out of some trees, to spot my target BEFORE I move my tank into firing position. It's much harder to see the tanker than the tank.

 

[Panzer Meyer]

I agree with Sgt. Rock. Crew shock is a very real, real world occurance. Tank combat feels a little dry at times because of the turn based nature.

Many knocked out tanks were in fact not knocked out but the crew bailed because the round penetrated. Sometimes causing minimal damage to the tank itself, but inflicting casualties on the crew. Almost always did someone get wounded or killed when a round penetrated. The chances are high because of the crampt compartment and the shell bouncing around along with the fragments of the tank.

I hope this is planned for a future patch, it would add a lot more to think about and not just stand there absorbing rounds. I've read many accounts of the crew even if not injured or wounded would be dazed to say the least. The thing they all suffered after a penetration is raptured ear drums, confusion even a concusion thanks to banging their heads on the steel.

Raptured ear drums cause you to loose balance as well (if you took biology you know why) so this of course would affect your aiming, driving and everything else. It only makes sense to have some sort of an effect when a round penetrates in game.

Sgt. Rocks solution would be great, just use the motion blur, some hazy vision and also pull back the avatar from the aiming screen (or whatever you wanna call it). It should last for at least 5 seconds, in real life the crew bailed most of the time and didn't return. But for fun/gameplay purposes we have to come to a compromise. So a 5 second dealy of sort would be the best.

edit: This has nothing to do with tactics. A tank on overwatch on a ridge will spot any movement. Angled properly, no other tank has no chance really. And say you got a Pz-IV on overwatch and you got a IS-2 against. So you get a lucky penetration on the IS2. The player in the IS2 is not phased at all, he can just line up and fire off killing you in the PZ-IV without any after thought.

In real life this is total BS. When that Pz-IV penetrates that IS, that 75mm will cause chaos inside the tank, disorienting the crew, most likly wounding someone, if not all of them or kill one of them. They will most likly not fire back, unless they are lucky and can come to their senses. But even if they are ok, the smoke, the shock of the round penetrating will be enough to where it will take a few moments for them to recollect themselfs and try and go into combat again.

Think of a flashbang grenade police use today, non lethal, but disorianting, blinding and deafening. It does this for a few seconds to a person in an enclosed space. It stuns a person for a few seconds, I believe it is something like 20-30 seconds (i could be wrong). The same affect but with lethal force happens when a round penetrates a tank. The crew is stunned to put it simply.

Back to RO terms, this would reward and punish good (team work) players and bad players respectively. If you are in a weaker tank a PZ-IV and are waiting on a Russian attack in ambush possition and you fire off that first round you are pretty much guaranteed a kill. As you should! I mean it is totally absurd how I can recieve 2 or 3 penetrations and keep firing like nothing is going on. I can recieve a hit and 1 second after fire off a round with perfect aim. When I am hit and the round penetrates my aim is still perfect on after the fact, this is retarded to say the least.

I would really like for the devs to take note of this, I hope they are reading.

 

[Moz]

Tactics. You need to learn them. If you get caught with your pants down, they are gonna get the first shot.

I very OFTEN exit my tank so I can look over a rise, around a building or out of some trees, to spot my target BEFORE I move my tank into firing position. It's much harder to see the tanker than the tank.

I do that and often my tank evapourates

 

[Harry S. Truman]

I do that and often my tank evapourates

HAHA! Yeah, don't leave it unoccupied for too long.

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

I'm not trying to be an ass here, but you seem to have very little understanding about "angle of impact" and it's effect on penetration. It doesn't take much angle to cause the kinetic energy of a penetrator to be deflected away. You assume that under a certain range, tanks just punch holes through each other like swiss cheese and this just isn't the reality of the situation.

do you want to explain me now, that a hit from a 122mm AP shell against a panther, or 88mm AP shell against a T34/76 on 50-100m shoud richochet now ?

that this realy happens frequently, theres an angle minimum from 30-35 degree needed. It can happen, but not 3-4 times in a row.

maybe i have no clue from tanks and fights and i never was there, but no war report i have read so far, tell me from much richochets on "close" distances, near always, there have been large distances come in to play with this. And even when the gun richochets, armor can "crack" when hit enough times by guns with high velocity. 100% front shield, is somewhat for X-Wings in Star Wars.

 

[Harry S. Truman]

do you want to explain me now, that a hit from a 122mm AP shell against a panther, or 88mm AP shell against a T34/76 on 50-100m shoud richochet now ?

that this realy happens frequently, theres an angle minimum from 30-35 degree needed. It can happen, but not 3-4 times in a row.

maybe i have no clue from tanks and fights and i never was there, but no war report i have read so far, tell me from much richochets on "close" distances, near always, there have been large distances come in to play with this. And even when the gun richochets, armor can "crack" when hit enough times by guns with high velocity. 100% front shield, is somewhat for X-Wings in Star Wars.

Well you never really read about the richochets cause they didn't get killed. I do know if you look at photos (hell, go to the Patton museum at Ft. Knox, Kentucky and see them first hand) of German tanks, they show lots of armor scars from ricocheted shells.

What I typically see happen with the 3 or 4 ricochets in a row is that the shooter or the target never move. They just keep pounding away at each other until one of them scores a lucky hit. Even if you keep firing at the same area, it's highly unlikely you keep hitting the same exact spot. If the first one bounces, it's likely the rest will too. When I find a sweet spot, where the shells bounce off, I will start to move my tank keeping the same exact angle, while I change my angle of attack. They fire 3 times with a BONK..and I fire once witha BOOM! I only do this if I didn't get first shot.

The fact is, even at close range not every shell is going to penetrate. Because the penetator was made of steel, with the high velocities at close range sometimes they shattered on impact. I doubt this is modeled. That's only one tiny factor. Hell you could get toolboxes blown off, extra links of track and even penetrate areas that arent' going to kill a tank.

I do know if you get a "flat on" shot, in a critical area, you will almost always get 1 shot 1 kill, unless it's the SU76.