Well Classic and the large update to realism went out, Figured I'd dump out a shortened view on these, what they were trying to improve and how they did.
Despite the fact that it was called 'classic' I feel that the community was originally asking for a more realistic game. Realistic that is in how it played out, not in any one particular feature.
One of the big '+' values of Ost was that it forced players to play in a slower more methodical pace; in all honesty it did this by twisting your arm behind your back to the breaking point while taunting you. Your player moved slow, coulden't mantle an obsticle without dolphin diving onto it, you had to run in place for a second cartoon style before you started moving ETC. The net effect of this comedy was that you really had to check your corners and play slow because if you exposed yourself you were, well... history.
In the ideal realism mode for HOS we would see the same net results, just possibly with another causality. That in my opinion is how you get 'accessibly' create the realistic experience with subsystems that seem less obtuse.
The second point that was a serious '+' for Ost was the gimped arms and super sway, which magically went 95% away when in cover and the weapon was rested. Again retarded feature if you just zoom in to look at it, but the net effect was that any player who survived the 48 hour window knew to go cover to cover whenever possible( ehrmagerd realistic movement! ).
Once again, I'd like to see this effect recreated partially by other causations. I do think that HOS realism level, especially while holding breath is very optimistic. Especially when you consider how long that level of nonsway can be held.
Ok so I've said as much as I liked the net effects, but I dislike that classic was basically a throwback to the old mechanics. This is made much worse when you add the RO2HOS maps, which are designed and made for faster movement, and much more linear battles. It basically turns into a F**k fest for the attacking team. ( game requires more coordination then on attacking team ).
So on to the next part, how could those same effects be re created without the use of Ost mechanics?
Well, I've got my ideas, please share yours if you have any insight here.
Probably the simplest way to make players play more tactically is summed up in one comic that I am not going to bother googling for now, it goes something along the lines of 1st life = uber tactical , 2+ life = rambo.
Death breaks all immersion, well atleast it does when you pop back to life with a new body. We need to Find ways to make both players lives longer as well as increased spawn time. The first is because it adds immersion, the second because players will change their play sytle even with no other game changes when the games respawn time goes from 15 seconds to 2 minutes. ( no not advocating for 2 minutes in general just saying ). Now this could use a little tweaking here or there, perhaps the attackers would get slightly shorter respawns than the defenders and such, but I think that the default time should be around 60 seconds. As an added benefit this would make the commander forced respawn something of serious value.
The concept I have towards attaining the second result is to change how players handle weapons. Currently in the 'realism' mode you can snap from hip to IS in a very short time. This is the players 'react to contact' time, which could be thought of as a penalty. The shorter this penalty is then the more brazen the player can be, because the penalty of being 'caught with pants down' is minimal. If you increase the time to raise a weapon to even a half a second or a second you will see a dramatic change in play style.
Also, to add to the last bit there, I'd like to see some movement changes to go with that. Take a trip with me here in time, way back to the original FPS's. The gun is just drawn somewhere in the lower middle of the screen, with a crosshair telling you where to put the dead things that arent dead yet. Sadly this idea of having guns at the hip stuck, and stuck hard. Have you ever played airsoft or paintball, do you walk around with that gun like it was an extension of your phallus? This is just something that was designed a while ago, and has stuck around because no one ever scratched their head and said "dafuk... that makes NO SENSE TODAY".
* small caveat, these aren't necessarily how people were trained. However they are all natural enough that it is highly likely a lot of people were using them.
So, speeds from fastest to slowest as follows:
Full run: As shown in game now as your fastest speed, weapon held in one or two hands depending on whether you have a million iron crosses or a million hero of the soviet union medals. Speed as fast as current realism mode. Only change being that instead of limiting the players mouse sensitivity ( which occasionally sticks and permanently lowers my mouse sensitivity; *shakes fist* ) the players head turns and their body turns slower. ( look where you want to go. If that feature turns out to be disorienting then remove it, the idea is to allow you to look left and right while running without makign 90 degree turns ) From this type of run to a full stop & Iron sights should be about 2-3 seconds MINIMUM.
Jog: Weapon butt is hinged at shoulder, slow jog used for covering shorter distances when the weapon might need to be raised. ( weapon can be hinged on the shoulder and raised much quicker than a weapon can be raised to the shoulder then IS'd )
***** walk: player can IS, moving a fair bit faster than slow walk. a fair bit of wobble on the IS, but steady enough to engage a close target.
Slow Walk: Bring back a shift button walk, low IS wobbly from walking. Player walks with weapon butt hinged at shoulder if not in IS, with the weapon at a low ready. From here the weapon can be raised the remaining 10-20 degrees angle to a firing stance quite quickly.
Implementation specific:
#1:The slow walk is new, and would require a button ( shift? ). The ***** walk is the default pace when in IS, while the jog is the default pace when out of IS. Roughly the pace of the current out of IS jog, just that the weapon isnt being held in such an odd fashion anymore. The full run of course binds to the current game full run button.
I would like to have a ***** walk with the weapon at a low ready though, so this way is not ideal. ( could introduce a double tap fast run )
So what are your thoughts on classic, try and be specific and use an intellectual shovel a bit. Dig into what it was trying to achieve, where it did good and where it failed. Also what are your thoughts on my suggested ways to achieve those same results without some of the associated negatives.
I'll get back to posting here a bit further after lunch on the subject of accuracy. It's a statistic that I would love to see pulled from the game system, how many bullets hit in HOS as opposed to the military numbers which afaik were around 95+% miss.
Also, I've got a few reasons why I think that the stats system is a bit of a failure.
Despite the fact that it was called 'classic' I feel that the community was originally asking for a more realistic game. Realistic that is in how it played out, not in any one particular feature.
One of the big '+' values of Ost was that it forced players to play in a slower more methodical pace; in all honesty it did this by twisting your arm behind your back to the breaking point while taunting you. Your player moved slow, coulden't mantle an obsticle without dolphin diving onto it, you had to run in place for a second cartoon style before you started moving ETC. The net effect of this comedy was that you really had to check your corners and play slow because if you exposed yourself you were, well... history.
In the ideal realism mode for HOS we would see the same net results, just possibly with another causality. That in my opinion is how you get 'accessibly' create the realistic experience with subsystems that seem less obtuse.
The second point that was a serious '+' for Ost was the gimped arms and super sway, which magically went 95% away when in cover and the weapon was rested. Again retarded feature if you just zoom in to look at it, but the net effect was that any player who survived the 48 hour window knew to go cover to cover whenever possible( ehrmagerd realistic movement! ).
Once again, I'd like to see this effect recreated partially by other causations. I do think that HOS realism level, especially while holding breath is very optimistic. Especially when you consider how long that level of nonsway can be held.
Ok so I've said as much as I liked the net effects, but I dislike that classic was basically a throwback to the old mechanics. This is made much worse when you add the RO2HOS maps, which are designed and made for faster movement, and much more linear battles. It basically turns into a F**k fest for the attacking team. ( game requires more coordination then on attacking team ).
So on to the next part, how could those same effects be re created without the use of Ost mechanics?
Well, I've got my ideas, please share yours if you have any insight here.
Probably the simplest way to make players play more tactically is summed up in one comic that I am not going to bother googling for now, it goes something along the lines of 1st life = uber tactical , 2+ life = rambo.
Death breaks all immersion, well atleast it does when you pop back to life with a new body. We need to Find ways to make both players lives longer as well as increased spawn time. The first is because it adds immersion, the second because players will change their play sytle even with no other game changes when the games respawn time goes from 15 seconds to 2 minutes. ( no not advocating for 2 minutes in general just saying ). Now this could use a little tweaking here or there, perhaps the attackers would get slightly shorter respawns than the defenders and such, but I think that the default time should be around 60 seconds. As an added benefit this would make the commander forced respawn something of serious value.
The concept I have towards attaining the second result is to change how players handle weapons. Currently in the 'realism' mode you can snap from hip to IS in a very short time. This is the players 'react to contact' time, which could be thought of as a penalty. The shorter this penalty is then the more brazen the player can be, because the penalty of being 'caught with pants down' is minimal. If you increase the time to raise a weapon to even a half a second or a second you will see a dramatic change in play style.
Also, to add to the last bit there, I'd like to see some movement changes to go with that. Take a trip with me here in time, way back to the original FPS's. The gun is just drawn somewhere in the lower middle of the screen, with a crosshair telling you where to put the dead things that arent dead yet. Sadly this idea of having guns at the hip stuck, and stuck hard. Have you ever played airsoft or paintball, do you walk around with that gun like it was an extension of your phallus? This is just something that was designed a while ago, and has stuck around because no one ever scratched their head and said "dafuk... that makes NO SENSE TODAY".
* small caveat, these aren't necessarily how people were trained. However they are all natural enough that it is highly likely a lot of people were using them.
So, speeds from fastest to slowest as follows:
Full run: As shown in game now as your fastest speed, weapon held in one or two hands depending on whether you have a million iron crosses or a million hero of the soviet union medals. Speed as fast as current realism mode. Only change being that instead of limiting the players mouse sensitivity ( which occasionally sticks and permanently lowers my mouse sensitivity; *shakes fist* ) the players head turns and their body turns slower. ( look where you want to go. If that feature turns out to be disorienting then remove it, the idea is to allow you to look left and right while running without makign 90 degree turns ) From this type of run to a full stop & Iron sights should be about 2-3 seconds MINIMUM.
Jog: Weapon butt is hinged at shoulder, slow jog used for covering shorter distances when the weapon might need to be raised. ( weapon can be hinged on the shoulder and raised much quicker than a weapon can be raised to the shoulder then IS'd )
***** walk: player can IS, moving a fair bit faster than slow walk. a fair bit of wobble on the IS, but steady enough to engage a close target.
Slow Walk: Bring back a shift button walk, low IS wobbly from walking. Player walks with weapon butt hinged at shoulder if not in IS, with the weapon at a low ready. From here the weapon can be raised the remaining 10-20 degrees angle to a firing stance quite quickly.
Implementation specific:
#1:The slow walk is new, and would require a button ( shift? ). The ***** walk is the default pace when in IS, while the jog is the default pace when out of IS. Roughly the pace of the current out of IS jog, just that the weapon isnt being held in such an odd fashion anymore. The full run of course binds to the current game full run button.
I would like to have a ***** walk with the weapon at a low ready though, so this way is not ideal. ( could introduce a double tap fast run )
So what are your thoughts on classic, try and be specific and use an intellectual shovel a bit. Dig into what it was trying to achieve, where it did good and where it failed. Also what are your thoughts on my suggested ways to achieve those same results without some of the associated negatives.
I'll get back to posting here a bit further after lunch on the subject of accuracy. It's a statistic that I would love to see pulled from the game system, how many bullets hit in HOS as opposed to the military numbers which afaik were around 95+% miss.
Also, I've got a few reasons why I think that the stats system is a bit of a failure.
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