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Squad Clan names, tags and war crimes

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#21
Although I signed up on this forum a few weeks ago, I never saw this, until notified by a moderator.

13.Waffen-Geb.Div. der SS "Handschar" (kroatische Nr.1) in reality was mostly composed of Bosniaks (whom are descended mostly from South Slavs, who converted to Islam under Ottoman Occupation). And there was one battalion under it, which was wholly composed of Albanians. This division had to be approved by the authorities of the Independent State of Croatia to be deployed, which is why it is so closely associated with the Ustasha. The Croatians thought the Bosnians would be getting too much of a representation and in turn would consider striving for indepence, so it was delibrately listed as Croatian, although 10% of the Mountain Division were Croatian Catholics.

21.Waffen-Geb.Div. der SS "Skanderbeg" (albanische Nr.1), which was composed of ethnic Albanians mostly from Kosovo. And received approval from Fascists who had formerly sided with the Italians as well as the sympathizers. Ethnic cleansing was carried out by this unit. This Mountain Division also had a minority of Catholics.

I can go on with more info and crimes committed by the divisions, but I guess it'd be too much.

These divisions were all primarily Muslims of European extraction and were commanded primarily by cadres of German NCOs and Officers.

I'll now be known as Vlad the Impaler.
 
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#22
THG repo said:
I think the only reason why people chose provocitve names is ignorance.

They only know of those names since they are punted about.

Its good neo nazis etc and all forms of extremist view points are shunned by the greater RO comunity.
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You obviously didn't read what both I and Wilsonam said in our posts so I'm just going to ignore you completly. GunHo the 5thSS never commited any war crimes, it was one of the cleanest or if not THE cleanest SS unit of the war...with a very nice battle record btw :). Handschar Wilsonam already corrected me when he said 13.SS did in fact murder quite a bit of innocent civilians during their Partisan operations. I'm just happy Wilsonam has come to terms on the first 3 SS Divisions, he is one of the educated on this forum.
 
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#24
Knapp|3. SS| said:
You obviously didn't read what both I and Wilsonam said in our posts so I'm just going to ignore you completly. GunHo the 5thSS never commited any war crimes, it was one of the cleanest or if not THE cleanest SS unit of the war...with a very nice battle record btw :). Handschar Wilsonam already corrected me when he said 13.SS did in fact murder quite a bit of innocent civilians during their Partisan operations. I'm just happy Wilsonam has come to terms on the first 3 SS Divisions, he is one of the educated on this forum.
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I'm glad many people such as yourself can actually distinguish between the Waffen SS units which actually committed atrocities/war crimes and ones which did not. Unfortunately, the media does not recognize the complex organizations, separate formations and their combat manuevers and dismisses them as a greater single entity, prone to committing war crimes.
 
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#25
Handschar said:
I'm glad many people such as yourself can actually distinguish between the Waffen SS units which actually committed atrocities/war crimes and ones which did not. Unfortunately, the media does not recognize the complex organizations, separate formations and their combat manuevers and dismisses them as a greater single entity, prone to committing war crimes.
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It is not only warcrimes, but ideology. While the wehrmacht wasthe military branch of Germany and thus being independent of ideology, but orderable by the government, the Waffen-SS was the paramilitary branch of the NSDAP and thus entitled to the genocidal ideology of the Nazis. So I wholeheartedly understand if someone finds it offensive when anybody uses SS references as a nick or clantag, no matter if that particular unit comitted warcrimes or not.
 
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#26
I would like to thank the Devs for a more than reasonable request. We will abide by the request and respect the Devs view on this subject. To the other Wafffen SS units please do not debate and respect the Devs decision. And to the others who object to the request please keep the Euro debate to yourself and remember this is just a game. Lets all please leave it at that. And lets all help the RO community grow by not bringing personal country politics into this professional game. Thank you and looking forward to friendly competition on the RO battlefield.
 
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#27
gunho said:
Wilsonam I under stand that these divisions have done so many bad things in the war, But The Clan name with just eg 5thSs-Rebel. Why isnt it not ok to represent a division very good at fighting, as long as they dont reflect on personal members, and there things they did out of the battle itself. Furthermore that they only choose that name and reflect on there skills of warefare.

So if they reflect on just the name and skills on the battlefieldm without going out of battle and no personal people,

What is Wrong with that?
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Yes they SHOULD just reflect the battlefield. However, there are enough dimwitted little neo-nazis and neo-Stalinists out there who don't stick to that. Also, the Waffen-SS was declared an "illegal organisation" as a whole, post-war. Anything to do with the SS is still illegal in Germany.

Hence the reason for the dictat from me: people on the forums are quite welcome to reflect the battlefield histories of these units, but they WILL also ensure that they understand the darker side and will educate their members on the topic. The whole point is to ensure that such atrocities are never allowed to happen again. Unfortunately (ask my wife - who has just written a piece on "The Politics of Mass Murder") it hasn't ended, but we will do our little bit here.

To borrow from Russian:

"No-one is forgotten; nothing is forgotten"​

And for topics such as this - that is exactly how it should be.
 
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#29
gunho said:
I understand what you mean, I heard of neo Nazis but neo Stalins( do you mean Extreme Communits?)
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I tend to draw a distinction between "Communists", who believe in the ideal of Communism in terms of everyone getting a fair share, looking after each other, and those who use communism as yet another excuse to take over the world.

However, people also confuse "Communism" and "Revolution". It went something like this...

1. Start with a wonderful ideal (very similar to that preached by Christian and Moslem prophets) of everyone being nice to everyone else.
2. Then decide that the only way to get from where we are today, to that ideal is to have a "proletarian revolution".
3. Then realise that the only way to have a real revolution is by force.
4. Add to that the fact that you don't trust people, so the revolution has to be protected. By force.
5. Then go all Leninist/Bolshevik and go "sod this, you need Terror".
6. Then sneak up on the Leninist/Bolsheviks, take over the whole show and keep everyone in their place with more Terror than even the Bolsheviks could imagine.
7. Hey presto: Stalin and Stalinism!!

Anyway - I'm ranting. The point is that there are "neo" versions of both sides of the coin. Both are only too happy to resort to absolutely any measure, without limit, to get what they want.

Basically, "extremists" of any sort frighten the pants off of me.

NOTE: DO NOT START A RELIGIOUS RANT OR ANY OTHER SORT OF RANT HERE!​

And @ Rez: behave.
 
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#31
I think this thread is very useful in providing guidelines for tasteful treatment of a difficult subject matter.

Hopefully some of the "flamey" posts will be removed so the grownups can keep an interesting discussion going.

One thing that surely is causing several people to choose SS related clan names is simply that foreign soldiers fighting on the axis side where often enrolled in the SS.

It is the responsibility of every clan choosing such a theme for itself to put some thought into why and how young men chose to fight for such an organisation.
 
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#34
Velcro Warrior said:
Will any of this apply to in-game tags? I know most servers already have their own rules on to what can be used...
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As a german/austrian clan, we have a very strict naming policy on our server, not only because in these two countries, being the origin of national socialism, the legislation concerning it is very strict, but also we find it to be politically unbearable and disrespectfull to the victims of national socialism and stalinism.
We don't kick/ban on sight though:
If you join with a name that violates our rules, you will be kindly asked to change your name ONCE. We do not care, if you have this name because you are named the same IRL as your parents had a ***** sense of humour, it is "just" a clantag, or you took it without much thought, just because it fits the WW2 theme.
If you change your name, you can stay and play and have a good time. If you refuse to do so (or try to argue why you "need" this name) you will be kicked.
If we find that you share in fact the political believes associated with the offending name, you will be banned for lif form our server.
 
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