Bmw R75
- Thread starter |ULF|_Monkeyman
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Yes, blitzkrieg is a way to conduct a strategic engagement..and the overall strategy for reaching those objectives is shown via the overhead map.
In direct relation to Ostfronts strategic element, its tactical aspect is very dependant on exactly what resources are available to the player as well how that player is able to communicate with and coordinate those resourses with other players in their reaching of the objectives.
If RO modeled company level combat we'd be seeing 100-200 players on each team. Ostfront models 'instances' of combat...
They could be deployed realistically on any large tank map(Orel included) and there are quite a few large maps out there. Motorcycles worked alongside apc's, and with panzer units. Yes a larger Hedgehog would be great for motorcycle riflemen but currently its more of a cqb map...one example of an 'instance' of where the battle has begun already. Now a Road To Hedgehog map could be cool.
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I'm counting the number of reinforcements for each team (usually 100 to 200, as you might find!) when I say Red Orchestra models company-level combat.
You don't know the difference between tactical combat and strategic combat, do you?
You don't know the difference between tactical combat and strategic combat, do you?
United States Army Field Manual said:
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True company level combat would involve more than 100 people fighting on the battlefield at one time. I have never seen more than 100 people playing all at once on any given server, hence its not really company level combat.
My understanding of strategy and tactics is as follows..
Tactics are the actual means used to gain a goal, while strategy is the overall plan, which may involve complex patterns of individual tactics. In every battle no matter how large I think strategy and tactics are used.
Being a game and for the most part only involving 'instances' of battle, the only recourse for obtaining an overall strategic plan for winning each battle is a looksee at the overhead map..here you see the objectives, from here you decide what your overall game plan (considering what your resourses are) /strategy will be for winning the map. After you and your team have their strategy down they must use tactics or 'the hands on part' to reach their overall goal. Yes the overhead map is a dumbed down version of the definition(s) of strategy because its an fps, but thats what we've got and the possibilities to formulate a strategy(although at a small scale)from this allows for it. What is the overhead map there for if not to give you an 'idea' of whats happening on the battlefield and to think, plan, and act accordingly? Overhead map=strategical tool. The game exhibits this tool to enable a player, preferably a team to formulate their strategy. So by this understanding, yes Ostfront is a game that does allow you the option of playing strategically to a certain degree.
Anyways..
My understanding of strategy and tactics is as follows..
Tactics are the actual means used to gain a goal, while strategy is the overall plan, which may involve complex patterns of individual tactics. In every battle no matter how large I think strategy and tactics are used.
Being a game and for the most part only involving 'instances' of battle, the only recourse for obtaining an overall strategic plan for winning each battle is a looksee at the overhead map..here you see the objectives, from here you decide what your overall game plan (considering what your resourses are) /strategy will be for winning the map. After you and your team have their strategy down they must use tactics or 'the hands on part' to reach their overall goal. Yes the overhead map is a dumbed down version of the definition(s) of strategy because its an fps, but thats what we've got and the possibilities to formulate a strategy(although at a small scale)from this allows for it. What is the overhead map there for if not to give you an 'idea' of whats happening on the battlefield and to think, plan, and act accordingly? Overhead map=strategical tool. The game exhibits this tool to enable a player, preferably a team to formulate their strategy. So by this understanding, yes Ostfront is a game that does allow you the option of playing strategically to a certain degree.
Anyways..
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I don't know why people are so hell-bent against new things like this.
The russians have the BA-64 as a fast ride for two infantry guys, with a light MG on top, and we're still playing the game, the sky hasn't fallen.
So why should a german fast ride, even lighter, be more of a problem? With new maps coming out, like Berezina, Orel, DarkdayinJuli, these bikes could be used to get infantry into positions from which they can flank the enemy. They could also be used for the commander to serve as artillery spotter.
Yeah, people are currently abusing the Buggy as a kamikaze-satchel vehicle and so other players are scared of anything else that could drive more than 50km/h in field. The realistic solution here is to make people take damage and stop them from instantly exiting vehicles going full speed. The solution is not to artifically restrict stuff.
Yeah, put this in. Would be fun. And realistic enough - after all, there are many other "realism compromises" we have in this game, like russians using Panzerfaust Spawns...no Anti-Tank handthrown weapons, satchels instead...tanks working with only 5 or 6 infantry guys as cover...
For the realism level we have currently, the bikes would fit in fine.
The russians have the BA-64 as a fast ride for two infantry guys, with a light MG on top, and we're still playing the game, the sky hasn't fallen.
So why should a german fast ride, even lighter, be more of a problem? With new maps coming out, like Berezina, Orel, DarkdayinJuli, these bikes could be used to get infantry into positions from which they can flank the enemy. They could also be used for the commander to serve as artillery spotter.
Yeah, people are currently abusing the Buggy as a kamikaze-satchel vehicle and so other players are scared of anything else that could drive more than 50km/h in field. The realistic solution here is to make people take damage and stop them from instantly exiting vehicles going full speed. The solution is not to artifically restrict stuff.
Yeah, put this in. Would be fun. And realistic enough - after all, there are many other "realism compromises" we have in this game, like russians using Panzerfaust Spawns...no Anti-Tank handthrown weapons, satchels instead...tanks working with only 5 or 6 infantry guys as cover...
For the realism level we have currently, the bikes would fit in fine.
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Yes, but an armored car or armed halftrack (you know, something that was actually used by mechanized companies for recon) would be MORE realistic.
Find me proof that motorcycles saw widespread use as the spearhead recon for armored companies. People keep saying they would be perfect on a large-scale tank map such as Orel, so find me proof that they were used at Kursk more than, say, armored cars or halftracks.
This is a terrible idea. I hope I never see motorcycles in RO, not even as a mod.
By the way, there's already something that can get infantry in to flanking positions on Berezina (I only say Berezina because it's the only map you listed that has an infantry focus). It's called the halftrack already in game! It can also carry more than two people!
Find me proof that motorcycles saw widespread use as the spearhead recon for armored companies. People keep saying they would be perfect on a large-scale tank map such as Orel, so find me proof that they were used at Kursk more than, say, armored cars or halftracks.
This is a terrible idea. I hope I never see motorcycles in RO, not even as a mod.
By the way, there's already something that can get infantry in to flanking positions on Berezina (I only say Berezina because it's the only map you listed that has an infantry focus). It's called the halftrack already in game! It can also carry more than two people!
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That right there is what needs to be done, not to mention fixing the ultra-UNrealistic way one can literally right an overturned BA-64 by hitting the brakes.
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It doesn't have to be a recon element of an armored division. BMWs can be used to recon for infantry as well.
Do not try to be a wisecrack, will ya. The Halftrack is slower, harder to steer and has a larger shilouette/footprint than the russian BA-64 which, as you might *perhabs* know, is in the game. Why do you want to deny the germans an equally fast, small, lightly armed vehicle, explain that to me please.
I ask this question to the general board: If the russians can have the BA-64, why can the germans not have the R75?
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So we are basing our want of the BMW on one attack early in the war? The way that attack went down, it could never happen in RO. You would have to give everyone bikes and you know people are going to screw around and it's just going to be silly. Once you show me evidence of a major engagement where motorcycles engaged in direct combat with a large enemy force I might support the idea of specialized maps dedicated to the bikes. But untill then suprise bridge skirmishes arn't going to sway me.
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I will like a lot to see the BMW-75 on some maps ... Think about Orel with good recon runnings on motorbikes to spot enemie tanks or good arty target.
Yep the sdkfz is also a good model to play with.
Iwould like to see them both ... and a russian counterpart for the motorcycle (lol horses
).
The problem with silly matches imao doesn''t come out. You can see people that learn to play pro and win using vehicles in a really good way. Not only vehicles but everything they can grab on ...
And playing silly, you can have fun but you will also learn how to die easy ...
The more choises the less noobish u will grow
Yep the sdkfz is also a good model to play with.
Iwould like to see them both ... and a russian counterpart for the motorcycle (lol horses
).The problem with silly matches imao doesn''t come out. You can see people that learn to play pro and win using vehicles in a really good way. Not only vehicles but everything they can grab on ...
And playing silly, you can have fun but you will also learn how to die easy ...
The more choises the less noobish u will grow
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Practically all panzer divisions included them. Motorcycle Riflemen of the 24th Panzer Division (..formerly the Leaping Horseman Division or 1st Cavalry) were engaged in one major engagement known as The Battle of Stalingrad..sadly the entire division was wiped out..1943. And if The Battle of Stalingrad doesn't seem to be a major engagement to you, then I don't know what one is.
I see motorcycles being limited in maps just as all other vehicles are..not everybody gets them or can use them. And yes just as some people just screw around with tanks and drive them silly, motorcycles can be used the same way..no difference. They can either be used positively or negatively.
Also I don't see the need of 'specialized maps dedicated to bikes'..all I'd like to see is the motorcycles inclusion in the game, they'd be a great addition and add an extra tactical element to any combined arms maps gameplay.
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So they were zooming around on motorcycles during the Battle of Stalingrad, even in the presence of enemy forces?
No wonder they got completely annihilated.
Fallscrimjaeger fought on the eastern front. That doesn't mean we should implement airdrops.
No wonder they got completely annihilated.
Fallscrimjaeger fought on the eastern front. That doesn't mean we should implement airdrops.
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Ahhhhh, never said zipping around. Said that they were part of the engagement.
And I actually enjoy the possibilities of Fallschirmj
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Adding a motorcycle in this game wouldn't be proportionally correct for the size of the battles RO offers. If we add motorcycles in, are we saying that for every ~15 soldiers, there was ~one soldier riding around on a damned motorcycle? I don't think so. Red Orchestra does not offer 100v100, so we don't need one of the very few teammates on the Russian side blazing around on a motorcycle.
This idea is incredibly dumb. Convincing monkeyman that it is dumb is harder than convincing people of the Flat Earth society that the Earth really is round.
This idea is incredibly dumb. Convincing monkeyman that it is dumb is harder than convincing people of the Flat Earth society that the Earth really is round.
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adding new content is never dumb. i'm supportive of adding every possible weapon and vehicle ever used and let the mappers decide what is appropriate for their maps.
all these naysayers complaining about how realistic platoon/company level combat really need to look at RO at its current state. maps like barashka and arad with hordes of tanks supported by 1 or 2 infantry are hardly realistic either.
more content = more possibilities for diverse gameplay, and i'm all for that. however, the bike probably shouldn't be high on the priortiy list for new content given the limited development resources.
all these naysayers complaining about how realistic platoon/company level combat really need to look at RO at its current state. maps like barashka and arad with hordes of tanks supported by 1 or 2 infantry are hardly realistic either.
more content = more possibilities for diverse gameplay, and i'm all for that. however, the bike probably shouldn't be high on the priortiy list for new content given the limited development resources.
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Last I checked maps of all variation in size and battle scope were out there, with more on the way. You have large combined arms maps and smalled cqb maps.
How exactly would adding motorcycles be less realistic than having 5 or 6 one man tank crews? If anything adding limited motorcycles on certain maps would add another dynamic available to people..how they play is up to them. Yea RO doesn't offer 100v100 but what it does simulate (as I said before in this thread) are 'instances' of battle..instances where you could easily have tanks, apc's and motorcycles and infantry working in conjunction to reach an objective.
WHAT THE EARTH ISN'T HEXAGONAL?? And the moon isn't made of banana peels??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ehhh... the potential for mass abuse is too much... clown car x135483859 if these things are as fast in game as they were IRL. Plus like the others said, they didnt give a single motorcycle to a company of otherwise normal infantry... they were orginized into seperate units, so unless they give it to everyone, then it isnt really plausible.
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