AT rifles=The use?

[LordKhaine]

Even a Panzer 38(t) Ausf. G frontally (50 mm) or a Panzer 2 Ausf. F frontally (30 mm round to 35 mm) would be impossible to difficult..

I said light tank/apc, but you felt the need to edit my quote to remove that. That covers a hell of a lot more than those two specific vehicles. And it covers many with thinner armour that would be vulnerable to the PTRD.

Still, I'll sure you'll quote this and probably several other posts at the same time and then edit them before picking them apart in a similarly highly selective manner. And probably with the same bizarre colouring.

 

[Rrralphster]

They made these diagrams for fun? Did they hand out crayons to go with them and make nice colloured pictures (with prizes???)?

Still wondering why they increased the amount of AT-rifles per unit from 6 to 13 in the spring of 1943.
I'm quite sure it was because they were effective after all...

Trying to get these translated as we speak.

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

I said light tank/apc, but you felt the need to edit my quote to remove that.

No need to state APC because they are obviously vulnerable.

That covers a hell of a lot more than those two specific vehicles.

You mentioned light tanks. Those two light tanks were just examples of things the PTRS would be impotent to hard-pressed against frontally even though they are 'only' light tanks.

Drawings

Why are you giving me 'Tauchpanzer' Panzer III G's and Panzer IV E's for?

Kz = short 50mm/75mm gun
Lg = long 50mm/75mm gun

The PTRD/PTRS is able to pierce the armour of the Pz IV F2/G model we have in game on several places (in reality)

Never frontally!



.

 

[Rrralphster]

Next to its epic sniping performance=i love sniping people with the PTRD, what else use does this have?

Fighting tanks? Now i know that the 45mm armor of the T34 Simply richocheted these 14.5mm projectiles, but Panzers where vurnable to them for a long time.

The side of a PZIV was never unchanged=30mm
Today i fired 25 shots, yes i went back to reload on Pavlovs house on the side of a PZIV. The range was pretty close at 50 meters, the angle a nice straight one

The PTRD penetrated 40mm at 100meters at a 0 degree angle. More then enough for the side armor of a PZIV right? yet nothing happend! None! The PZIV just stayed there and kept killwhoring everything like if nothing happend!

Am i doing something wrong? or does TWI made this game suddently not historical accuracy because the panzers shouldnt be killed by this method?

We are talking about targetting the sides of the PzIV in this discussion.

 

[DasFist]

All the historical stuff aside, I too have shot a panzer about 20 times, perfect angle, with no damage at all. I am not a history buff but the weapon does seem rather pointless to me.

 

[G_Sajer]

The effects aren't exactly linear are they? It was never a sitution where if you do A then B is bound to result. Against a medium, you'll probably get the best results from an ATR by trying to damage the engine or tracks. The psycological effect will indeed cause the crew to alter their behavior drastically. In the actual campaign, the Soviet ATR made the use of any armour lighter than a tank precarious without close infantry support. Tanks were more vunerable to it than you might imagine if the shot came from elevation and struck top turret armor or the engine compartment. Testimony from German officers describing what a huge pain in the butt these were is not hard to find.

 

[TT33]

Panzer III G's and Panzer IV E's for?

Yes these were older Barbarossa tanks rare for Stalingrad.

They made these diagrams for fun?

These kind of charts (I've seen a few others) are optimistic... and not entirely accurate possibly even complied with older information seeing as both designs were modernized, however even so notice all the the vision slits are targeted on the diagram (cupola slits, driver's , mg, side turret slits, Commander's periscope) notice also that there doesn't seem to be any targets painted on the actual side or rear armor of the tank rather the targets are on the exterior of the tank such as the rollers, drive wheels, and exhaust.

The PTRD penetrated 40mm at 100meters at a 0 degree angle.

35mm at 100 @ 0 but that's the theoretical penetration amount not the actual vs these tanks.

 

[Eule]

About the penetration power and in-tank-effects of the PTRS from another thread:

I talked about the frontal armor of the Panzer IV G if you read my posts carefully.
And it is not possible for the PTRS-41 to penetrate any frontal armor part of the Panzer IV G neither in the game nor in reality <---and that is ok like this!!!!

A second thing is the question how potent a PTRS-41 is against a german Panzer IV G

 

[Rrralphster]

Following text is a translation from the diagrams I posted.


Pz III:

1) 45 mm cannon: 200 m.
2) 57 mm and 76 mm: whenever adjusted fire is possible.
3) From AT rifle: 150-200 m.
4) Heavy machine gun: sides, view slits and armament whenever adjusted fire is possible.
5) Molotov cocktail: 15-20 m.
6) AT grenade: 15-20 m.

Hit the fuel tanks! Hit the cannon! Hit the engine!

Pz IV:

1) 45 mm cannon: 600 m.
2) 76 mm: whenever adjusted fire is possible.
3) From AT rifle: sides and cannon mask at 150-200 m.
4) AT grenade: side armor at 15-20 m.
5) Molotov cocktail: view slits and jalousies (yep) at 20 m.
6) Heavy machine gun: view ports and armament; at close range side armor.

Hit the fuel tanks! Hit the cannon! Hit the engine!

Red crosshair and bullet = shoot the AT rifle here.

 

[Eule]

Following text is a translation from the diagrams I posted......

1. Thanks for the translation

2. What do you want to tell us with that?

3. Please read my calculation-post above your post

-----------------

In case you ignore my post....:
i will give you a short interpretation of your pictures and the text.

4. The tanks on your pictures are the "Panzer III G" and "Panzer IV E" and not the "Panzer III J, J(late), M, N" and "Panzer IV F2, G(early), G" which were the Main battle tanks in stalingrad.

5. Even in case of the much weaker armor ( i will show you at the end of this post) your weapons/tactics are not "fire and forget" instructions.

Here... interpretation:

45mm L/46 mod. 38 AT gun:

Cause the Panzer III G has minimum 30mm armor everywhere you can only start shooting on him with some success at ranges under 200meters.
Depending on production problems and storage mistakes the 45mm round were able to penetrate at:

100meters 500meters
​

0

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

The tanks on your pictures are the "Panzer III G" and "Panzer IV E" and not the "Panzer III J, J(late), M, N" and "Panzer IV F2, G(early), G" which were the Main battle tanks in stalingrad.

Eule you could have simply owned him by saying: Look at this stalingrad chart The most common tanks on it are Panzer III lang and Panzer IV lang. By definition the Panzer III lang is a J

 

[F.A.A.L.]

can someone make picture with EXACT points where to hit soviet and nazi tanks with AT rifle? and how many hits in certain point is needed to destroy tank?

 

[r5cya]

can someone make picture with EXACT points where to hit soviet and nazi tanks with AT rifle? and how many hits in certain point is needed to destroy tank?

post number 21 is as close as it gets.

 

[F.A.A.L.]

post number 21 is as close as it gets.

i don't know where is this picture taken from, i'm guessing that's real life spots.

i'm wondering how it is implemented in game. are ALL spots EXACTLY same as in real life? and how many hits in certain spot does what?

for example: that blue point on my picture. from experience in game i can tell that you can hit tank in this spot. but what it does? i think after one hit tank can still move. how many hits there is needed to stop tank from moving? is possible to destroy tank with hitting it just in that spot? is yes, how many hits?

what about other spots? where to shoot to kill crew? what spot is one-hit-kill? etc

EDIT: and what about that other tank?

 

[shadowmoses]

I find the AT rifle more useful as a sniper rifle on viagra.

A better question would be 'Whats the use of the Engineer Class?'.
I would have expected to see destructible walls and doors like in RO1, that would lead players thru a new flank/path. The lack of map strategy and depth in this game absolutely baffling.

 

[Eule]

...
I would have expected to see destructible walls and doors like in RO1, that would lead players thru a new flank/path. The lack of map strategy and depth in this game absolutely baffling.

Destructible walls/doors in RO1 ????....
In RO1 wasn

 

[Six_Ten]

at some walls you can penetrate with NO weapon from the one side but with all weapons from the other side of this wall.
It depends on the texture.

This is more a comment for mappers than general players, but that probably can be prevented by putting a hidden mesh textured with bulletproof material inside the wall; for example a poly textured with Brick behind the Plaster if the outer wall is brick, to prevent pass-through.

 

[defektive]

for example: that blue point on my picture. from experience in game i can tell that you can hit tank in this spot. but what it does? i think after one hit tank can still move.

Tanks can never be immobilized in RO2. (Astoundingly, someone decided that would be rubbish for gameplay. Colour me amazed.) In some cases it even benefits the tank to having its engine blown out so that it can still move but make almost no sound in doing so. I've pegged numerous unwitting enemy tanks from behind with a ninja-tank: I can always position them due to their engine noise (easier to hear as my engine is now silent) but they pretty much have no idea where I'm going once I'm out of sight.

As an RO tanker vet. it pains me greatly to say that the RO2 tank game is, frankly, currently sh_t. Sorry, but it is. I cling on to hope for a raft of fixes but realise they will most likely be last on the list (if the amount of attention that has gone into the current tank model is any benchmark of priority).

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

i don't know where is this picture taken from, i'm guessing that's real life spots...i'm wondering how it is implemented in game. are ALL spots EXACTLY same as in real life?

The tanks in the pictures are not the tanks in the game...

even the bullet penetration system is a mess.

RO 1's seemed better:



Red Orchestra RMFMod 貫通サンプル - YouTube

 

[UsF]

Several spots in that picture above do different things. For example the blue marked spot would disable the track brake in that area preventing the tank from turning into that direction.

The picture used to show that the cupola was invulnerable to the AT rifles with such a big hole would suggest that multiple hits to the same area might have a desired effect. In close quarters combat, that might become a real issue for the tanks. Not so much on open fields.

Crew seems to be killed by direct hits only or a fatal shot to the ammo storage. There seems to be no spalling simulation and damaging of crews besides the healthy-dead state.