About lifting your weapon to IS view

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PGD03

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 30, 2006
123
10
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One thing has been bothering me about this animation. It's taking too long. There's always a weird short moment of silence before engaging when two opposite sides guys confront each other. That's the time when they switch to IS and imho it looks very stupid. Ok, it's not like ages but it is too much.

To be sure I got serious about this and took it to extreme measures. Picked up a stopwatch and only weapon that I have in the house currently, an old german BB-gun (pretty heavy, made of steel and wood). I tried it several times and and had my friend to help me too. I could bring up the ironsight almost twice as fast as in the game. I recorded these times while standing still. While prone it's a bit different...

The point is I'd make the animation a bit faster. Now for example it's impossible to clear buildings the way it's done irl. Well, this thing and excessive amount of recoil while standing..
 

Hyperion2010

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
2,560
1
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33
NC
Its really damned fast, there are people who want it slower, and its certainly not getting faster. IRL it would take much longer to get your sight picture correct to the level that it is in ROO.
 

Byte Me

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 9, 2006
909
0
0
Virginia, USA
Theres a difference between bringing a weapon's sights up and aiming accuratly. IRL you can bring the sights up to eye level fast, that doesn't mean you will hit something. I say increase the speed you bring up IS, but add a .5 to 1 sec delay before you can take full advantage of its accuracy. Meaning during that delay you are more accurate than hipping but less accurate than regular IS.
 
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MkH^

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 11, 2006
500
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Finland
Seeing that the weapon is nearly perfectly accurate for the first few seconds after putting up the ironsights, it's pretty damn quick compared to real life, where it takes around three seconds for a trained soldier to pick his target.
 

Blitz-Hawk

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
18
0
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34
Somewhere in Canada
Have them come up faster, but if possible maybe blur the sights heavily for a split second OR have the gun off center of where you would naturally think (randomly).
 

shadowmoses

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2006
688
235
0
Both the mauser and the mosin are very heavy weapons(using them as examples due to their wide use in game)
weight:
mosin 9.5lbs

mauser is 8.6lbs

now if you ask me thats pretty heavy, or atleast heavy nough to when you bring it up to aim, it take some time....

Now the mosin is the heavier one of the two...and the longer one.
at 48.5" you are feeling the weight.
the mauser is much easier at only 43.7".
the hard thing is to bing it to sights and put a beed on ur target.
its one thing to aim, its another to aim accurately
 

shadowmoses

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2006
688
235
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MkH^ said:
Seeing that the weapon is nearly perfectly accurate for the first few seconds after putting up the ironsights, it's pretty damn quick compared to real life, where it takes around three seconds for a trained soldier to pick his target.
im not a trained soldier and i can hit a target at about 100yrds in that time or less...lol
 

PGD03

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 30, 2006
123
10
0
Byte Me said:
Theres a difference between bringing a weapon's sights up and aiming accuratly. IRL you can bring the sights up to eye level fast, that doesn't mean you will hit something. I say increase the speed you bring up IS, but add a .5 to 1 sec delay before you can take full advantage of its accuracy. Meaning during that delay you are more accurate than hipping but less accurate than regular IS.
I'M SO HAPPY I COULD KISS YOU IF YOU WERE A WOMAN :D You are having my thoughts exactly. The longer the weapon is the less mobile it is, meaning while your moving or right after moving it, it takes a while to stabilize it. That's the way it is irl and that's the way many good games have it done (for example ravenshield, smgs are more mobile but inaccurate long range and clumsy assault rifles like M16, G3 etc. are clearly more accurate but bad in cqb.) Maybe not the whole second but somewher between .5 and 1 would be good.
 

Dcode

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,336
70
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Sheffield, UK
Byte Me said:
Theres a difference between bringing a weapon's sights up and aiming accuratly. IRL you can bring the sights up to eye level fast, that doesn't mean you will hit something. I say increase the speed you bring up IS, but add a .5 to 1 sec delay before you can take full advantage of its accuracy. Meaning during that delay you are more accurate than hipping but less accurate than regular IS.

That actually sounds like a really good idea, it would get you out of the **** at close quaters especially with a pistol which i feel takes too long for what it is and in close quaters you need something snappy to get you out of trouble.
Also it would take the pop up rifleman out, MG's suppression would be more effective too.

However i dont think this should work when you have your rifle rested on something, and if it did, the wait time for accuracy would be much shorter.
 

HABO3

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 30, 2006
2
0
0
PGD03 said:
There's always a weird short moment of silence before engaging when two opposite sides guys confront each other. That's the time when they switch to IS and imho it looks very stupid. Ok, it's not like ages but it is too much.

Those two guys must be really stupid then because the time it takes me to engage someone is....instantaeneously! Why? Because I raise my sights and sweep my field of view for targets like a smart person.

Weapon at the hip is for moving to cover, IS is for finding and killing targets. Anything different would turn the game into run n gun horseshit.
 

o0|REDRUM|0o

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 21, 2006
19
0
0
I wonder if some people have ever shot a real weapon of any kind. Try finding some skeet shooting on TV on a saturday morning and tell me that you cant be accurate with a fast moving target. Sure its one projectile versus 16, but your talking about shouldering, focusing, aiming, adjusting for lead, and a kill shot in under one second. There shooting at a 6" target traveling quite fast also, not a 24" human body thats stationary.

Take a pistol speed shooting course as another example. How many targets do they hit and run to another station and hit and again and again.

Ive seen quite a few "wild west" shooting competitions as well very similar to the pistol course. Lever action rifles, same deal.
In real life its quite possible to shoulder a weapon and pull off a very accurate shot measured in tenths of a second. Im no trained shooter and I can easily hold a pattern to hit a 55 gallon drum at 50 yards from the hip everytime. Wheres the accuracy representation in game like that? Hell, if that was the case IS would be useless to me except for long range. IMO the animation should be shortened. If your looking anywhere near your target when you IS, you should be close, swing adjust and fire. To add random swing after ISing is just crazy. Thats just dumbing it down for the unskilled shooter. What would be the point of practicing and getting better at it if the guy that just installed has just a good a chance as the guy with hours and hours playing because some BS randomness was added?
 

Byte Me

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 9, 2006
909
0
0
Virginia, USA
Woah now redrum. I do believe your jumping to conclusions. You have to remember, the men portrayed in this game are not super soldiers. They are draftees who have been fighting with little training and food. Battle makes people tired real quick. Maybe you can be as accurate at the hip as you say, but have a week of being fed poorly and running around shooting and being shot at. You would be tired and your sights would sway a little if you moved a rifle in IS, which is becoming heavier everyday. Besides, if your almost on top of your target when you go into IS the sway would be almost nil. It will affect you most when you swing it like 3 feet over to your right or left. And no, it wouldn't be dumbing it down for noobs, if anything this makes it harder since you can't be lazer accurate with no penalty every time you tap the IS key. Also, just because you spent the time getting really good doesn't mean you can't get killed by a new player. It happens all the time, you don't sustain more shots just cause you've played longer.
 

PGD03

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 30, 2006
123
10
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Byte Me said:
Woah now redrum. I do believe your jumping to conclusions. You have to remember, the men portrayed in this game are not super soldiers. They are draftees who have been fighting with little training and food.
You don't seem to know what you are talking about. There were many kinds of soldiers pounding the battlefield. 41-45 there was veterans who were in military service before the war thus fighting already 2 years or so, there were veterans who were drafted during the war but had fought and shot their weapons almost daily in combat so being very skilled and of course the replacement noobs that learned or perished. So why the modelling is made according those noobs which barely know what end of the weapon do point at the enemy?
 

Byte Me

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 9, 2006
909
0
0
Virginia, USA
PGD03
You don't seem to know what you are talking about. There were many kinds of soldiers pounding the battlefield. 41-45 there was veterans who were in military service before the war thus fighting already 2 years or so, there were veterans who were drafted during the war but had fought and shot their weapons almost daily in combat so being very skilled and of course the replacement noobs that learned or perished. So why the modelling is made according those noobs which barely know what end of the weapon do point at the enemy?
Ok yes, maybe I shouldn't have generalized the skill level of the soldiers like I did. However, almost none of the maps are early war, most seem to be mid to late. Therefore it should be a mix, but you can't really represent that in a game (well by how they look, but nothing gameplay wise). How fair would it be if 2 people chose the riflemen class but 1 was selected to run faster, have longer stamina, be more accurate, etc because he had more experiance? You have to use the lowest common denominator, well you don't exactly, somewhere in between cannon fodder and
 

shadowmoses

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2006
688
235
0
Byte Me said:
Woah now redrum. I do believe your jumping to conclusions. You have to remember, the men portrayed in this game are not super soldiers. They are draftees who have been fighting with little training and food. Battle makes people tired real quick.
Indeed
infact the most of the russian soldiers were poor uneducated men (young men) who hadnt fired a weapon befor...
And if you want some ideas of the last days of berlin go watch a movie called Down Fall.
It shows that most of the last people to defend the city were children and teenagers. the rest were old men.
The germans too werent in the best of shape...many time there would be ordered to advance too quickly to the point where the supplys that followed became days/weeks behind...the germans werent well fed, clothed or supplied in pockets all through the front line.
The eastern front was a VERY dif war from that of the deffensive line to the west...
 

[5.SS] Hollenfeuer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 31, 2006
101
0
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37
Ohio, USA
www.thefifthsswiking.org
o0|REDRUM|0o said:
I wonder if some people have ever shot a real weapon of any kind. Try finding some skeet shooting on TV on a saturday morning and tell me that you cant be accurate with a fast moving target. Sure its one projectile versus 16, but your talking about shouldering, focusing, aiming, adjusting for lead, and a kill shot in under one second. There shooting at a 6" target traveling quite fast also, not a 24" human body thats stationary.

Very true. Though skeet shooting is more of a reflex sport. I am very proficient at the sport, and don't so much aim the gun as I do point and shoot. If you use the same gun for an extended period of time you eventually begin to "feel" where the shot will land. It's hard to explain, but it's similar to riding a bike. You don't line the bike up or aim it to balance it out, you just feel what's right and wrong (I know, I know... bad analogy). You see the clay fly, and then you shoulder the gun and guide your shot pattern into it. As you said this all happens in less than a second. This is also how proffesional archers are able to make pinpoint shots very quickly. They've fired the same bow so many times that they know the mechanics by heart; take the guy on ESPN that can shoot an aspirin tablet out of mid air with a bow for example. There's no way he "aims" at an aspirin tablet, he just reflex shoots it. Does that make any sense? :confused:
 

Elvis

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 15, 2006
27
0
0
Hyperion2010 said:
Its really damned fast, there are people who want it slower, and its certainly not getting faster. IRL it would take much longer to get your sight picture correct to the level that it is in ROO.
It's not correct- It doesn't focus on the front sight post. Furthermore, it's abysmally slow compared to real life.
Perhaps there could be one click to bring the weapon to eye level quickly. This would attempt to simulate instinctive shooting, which is IRL very fast and accurate at close range. (Take that to the bank, been there, done that), and a second click to aquire a full sight picture for longer range shooting.