A reasoning on economy and magazine count

[Al Bobo]

I guess they could also up the amount of zeds per wave. When you can't have all the ammo you need on one weapon, what do you do? You buy another weapon so you get another ammo pool. Devs could reduce the amount of ammo that you get from ammo boxes while making trader ammo cheaper to ensure that people are stocked before the fun starts.

 

[Homerun29]

The weapon switching speed is the biggest deterrent for me. Honestly, I never switch weapons. If I need to switch to another weapon in a hurry I just drop it because the weapon pulls out more than 2x faster.

 

[Ryno5660]

Ammo drops are a tricky one too. I can't speak for others, but for me I rarely if ever use a weapon I've picked up, selling it aside. It's because when I've chosen a perk I want to get xp for that perk as I kill, and picking up say a shotgun...I mean yeah, I used one as a demo on catacombs because it gave me a bit of staying power, but it felt like I'd hit an XP wall if that makes sense.

Also I totally have no problem with having more zeds. Realistically, I am routing for the ideal balance but the fun-loving part of me wants hundreds of the suckers!

 

[2Clicks]

May the best way of restricting weapon availability is to just not make them available until a certain wave. All this tweaking down of extra weapons to sell, ammo availability and upping the costing just seems like alot of work to get to the same place.

 

[MrMoss]

What used to be happening: tier 1 weapons were too good that players would not buy tier 2 or 3 and get tier 4 really early in the game from all the money saved.

Their reasoning: by making tier 1 (and 2) weaker, players will get tier 2-3 as soon as they can, extending the time it takes to get tier 4 weapons.

Ok. But usually, i go for the boomstick ASAP, then i wait until have dosh for AA12. In other hand, firebug and demo tier 2 weapons seems less useful, so i think people will stick into tier 1 guns until tier 3, maybe 4. Same result here.

 

[Fatcat560]

Making t4's more special?

Making t4's more special?

Everything before the mid tier zeds (bloat/husk/siren) but even they don't do well. The Tier 4's are designed to be more situational weapons, not the use all day everyday for everything solutions that they have been.

Maybe the weapons could be made more situational if the ammo-pickup would be disabled for t4 weapons. Sounds a bit harsh (especially for Commando) but then you couldn't use it all the time and you had to use your other weapons more often.

 

[Reclusiarch]

I actually like this changes, they are very noticeable and make the game more dynamic in my opinion.

But... since I've got the game some months back, I never played on Suicidal or Hell on Earth, so I can't really say if this changes are positive or not on those difficulties (my bet is that they are positive, but still, is just a supposition)

Loving the update overall, thanks TW!

 

[:KFP Rusty Shackleford]

Let's skew TWI's data by playing as Zerk and Firebug until we have enough dosh to buy Tier 4 weapons for the classes we really want to play as. Send them a big F you for the horrible changes they made to ruining the fun in playing with other classes early in the game.

 

[Reclusiarch]

ARF BALRGH! URFFFFF (angry noises)

Dude, chill out, this is Early Access, they NEED to test and try stuff with the game.

Besides, the update is great overall

 

[NonCom]

makes scavenging completely useless

makes scavenging completely useless

makes scavenging completely useless

Hmm...

 

[Varitus]

I registered here basically to complain about this new balance change. Speeding up monsters - that's great. That's good and all. But when your shotgun has 16 ammo and u do 2 shots, reload - that's a freaking suicidal thing. Why not keep new speed, but return amount of ammo back to normal? It was soooooo zeny to walk around with shotgun (tier 2, tier 20, whatever number) and shoot heads off from those zombies! Now from couple of days playing there are more times where I don't even get to buy automatic shotgun from support - it's either game over or because I don't have ammo for anything I can't buy anything. And lets be real - all that "team spirit" is little bit rare thing. My vote - keep current speed and agrressivness of zombies, but ditch current weapons balance and return to previous version.

 

[Rafin The Red]

Let's skew TWI's data by playing as Zerk and Firebug until we have enough dosh to buy Tier 4 weapons for the classes we really want to play as. Send them a big F you for the horrible changes they made to ruining the fun in playing with other classes early in the game.

Obviously your angry. But I think this is a little over the top. I agree with you in that some of the changes ( ammo ) are a little ( at least ) too much. But I don't think they intentionally tried to ruin any one's fun. This is their lively hood. This is how they pay their bills. So if they ruin it then they're ruined.

They saw a problem(s) and are trying to balance it out. Did they go too far? In some cases yes I think so. But now they have a low mark to go by. They already had a high mark, so now they can shoot for the mark in between. Just like focusing a camera ( do people still do that? ). You go back and forth until you get it right. That's what they are doing. You know ( and they've said it ) they will change it again.

 

[Nowotny]

Biggest issue currently,

Ammo boxes do not remotely give enough ammo to make them worhwhile, 20 flamer ammo? 6 shotgun shells? There is no relation between how rare the ammo boxes are and how little they give.

Either make them more common, or make them give more ammo. Think the former would be good as it would encourage people to keep moving for small ammo pickups to keep the going.

Second issue is the ammo snatching, it is ridiculous how in a cooperative game I'm trying to grab boxes before my teammates. Everybody needs ammo and just tries to grab it as fast as possible. It is incredibly dumb and frustrating mechanic.

It would be good if multiple people could pickup ammo from 1 stash to stop it from being a race to snatch it before your team notices them.


It also doesn't help that both the firebugs and demolition starter weapons are useless trash against anything but clots in low difficulty, making saving money early very very difficult. It feels like I have to play berserker first few rounds then use that money to buy a higher tier kit with firebug.

 

[Gallic_Taffer]

Either make them more common, or make them give more ammo.

Each gun needs a unique recovery per pickup; broad balance sweeps create new problems alongside the solutions. In KF1 the ammo box recoveries were ludicrously unbalanced. Six M32 shells but only three for the M79. Hunting shotty would net you ten. Ten huntings went a long way back in those days. I think now you only get four or six, and the hunting is much weaker than its predecessor.

 

[Shroomulah]

The ammo nerfs trying to make other tier weapons more viable is an interesting idea, but it's completely nullified by the fact the berserker doesn't need ammo with their zweihander and are the top class now. Super speed, highest HP/HP steal, highest damage reduction, infinite ammo, knockdown on ALL zeds. Unless zerk issues are addressed, this ammo nerf will just make everyone other than medics/zerks useless.

 

[Yoshiro]

We are looking at the zerker, but as previously stated, it is a whole different set of challenges.

As to the non tier 4 weapons with this update we've given several new tools in the ability to stumble, knockback, knockdown, burn and more.

We are also keeping a close eye on the data to see how everything plays out and will be making some changes I am sure.

 

[Azukki]

The Tier 4's are designed to be more situational weapons, not the use all day everyday for everything solutions that they have been.

The choice to reduce ammo for all other commando options except the SCAR seems VERY contrary to this intention.

 

[Rainydaykid]

The biggest reason I don't switch weapons is the speed. At least make the 9mm and knife switch a lot faster. I used the 9mm a lot as support in KF1 against trash not worth bothering wasting a shell on. Now, I rarely play support as I have to wait on the slow switch, then I'm stuck holding a 9mm when a husk or bigger is suddenly there and I need a shotgun.

The 9mm and knife seem like decent weapons as they are, but they are definitely underused solely because of the slow switch speed. I definitely like using the perk knives, but the speed dampens it a lot. I usually just use whatever I have on everything until it runs out of ammo.

Dulls the gameplay a lot, and is less fun. Let the 9mm help with ammo management again.

 

[ComradeHX]

Commado weapons are already only good for clearing trash yet they still get nerfed in ammo capacity...

WTF?

 

[GenRommel]

I registered here basically to complain about this new balance change.

Exactly what I just did.

Sure on normal nerfing support's ammo capacity probably won't change much, since I already used the medic pistol as my primary weapon until I needed to do some real damage, and maybe it's ok on hard. Even when I use the medic pistol all the time, I'm already running out of ammo on later waves in suicidal with the double barrel, and now you made it worse?

With the SG500 losing so much ammo, I might have to buy the medic pistol (it's nice and cheap) sooner, but I still intend to buy the AA12 before double barrel or M4. I don't do that because I have too much money, (ok, on normal/hard I probably do), but because I want to.

Overall though, this update is making me just not want to play support anymore, what's the point if the microwave gun can kill the big zeds so well? (Not to mention berserker.) It's just not particularly fun anymore if I can't shoot at anything.

Other than the excessive ammo nerfing, love the update!