Ammo prices

[9_6]

As you may or may not know, I'm making a list here with some balance changes that need to be done/would be cool to have.
The ammunition prices are a whole new issue in itself that warrants a separate topic to keep the overview.
So let's get going.

I have compiled a list with the current ammunition prices as they are displayed in the trader window right now.
For the sake of overview, here is the full list:

Current ammunition prices

Weapon (price of 1 mag) (price to fill an empty weapon)

MAC-10 15 100
Flamer 48 192

9mm 10 160
dual 9mm 10 80
Handcannon 15 180
Dual HCs 15 90
LAR 20 160
M14 15 120
Xbow 15 600

Bullpup 10 100
AK 12 125
SCAR 18 168

MP7m 20 200

Shotgun 20 155
Hunting shotgun 25 737
AA12 40 208

Pipebomb 400 800 (with lv6 demo perk 28 224)
M79 10 240
M32 20 120
LAW 30 450

Hand grenade 40

If I forgot something or made a mistake, please correct me.
"1 mag" is not literally 1 mag, it can be 10 LAR shots or 2 rockets or whatever, depending on the gun.

Changes that should be made:

• Filling up M14 ammo should cost ~320, it's basically a LAR with twice the ammo after all
• Ammo prices for dualies should be the same as for single pistols
• Mp7 ammo shouldn't be more expensive than the gun itself (as a lv6 medic) so make it half the price.
• The price for hunting shotty ammo is way out of whack. It should be much closer to the AA12. At least lower it to half the value.
• M32 ammo should cost 60 per 6 grenades so 1 m32 grenade costs as much as 1 m79 grenade instead of being way cheaper.
• LAW ammunition is way too expensive for what it's worth. It should cost half as much
• Mac ammunition should be twice as expensive. It's even cheaper than 9mm ammunition right now and for what it does, it should cost more.
• Hand grenades are pretty much useless right now. 20 per piece is a more adequate price for their effectiveness.
• pipe bombs should cost ~100 each as a level 6 demolitions to make spam harder which means the discount should change from 93% to 75%.

Discuss.

 

[Evilsod]

Wasn't it also said the Crossbow should start with 50% ammunition and bolts should cost 10 each? That way selling it to rebuy it and buying 20 bolts (the amount of ammunition it would start with) are identical so you can't just abuse the system.

I'm not familiar with the Hunting Shotgun but it would probably need its price and ammo price both adjusted.

 

[9_6]

Wasn't it also said the Crossbow should start with 50% ammunition and bolts should cost 10 each? That way selling it to rebuy it and buying 20 bolts (the amount of ammunition it would start with) are identical so you can't just abuse the system.

Selling it and rebuying it if it only had half the ammo to begin with would cost 800+300 to refill it, 1100.
Re-buying it would make you lose 500 (800 for a new xbow - 300 for the 20 arrows it comes with) instead of 200.
It wouldn't be a viable tactic anymore. Or rather it would be a lot less viable since not refilling means you only got 20 shots.

I'm also not planning to include a lower xbow ammo price.

 

[Evilsod]

Selling it and rebuying it if it only had half the ammo to begin with would cost 800+300 to refill it, 1100.
Re-buying it would make you lose 500 (800 for a new xbow - 300 for the 20 arrows it comes with) instead of 200.
It wouldn't be a viable tactic anymore. Or rather it would be a lot less viable.

I'm also not planning to include a lower xbow ammo price.

If you leave the price at 800 for the bow, reduce ammo price to 10 per bolt and supply with only 20 bolts not the full 40, it costs 800 to buy the Bow, 200 to fill it so it would cost 1000. If you used all 40 bolts it would cost you 400 to refill it, the exact same price it would cost you to sell/buy at a cost of 200 then buy the other 20 bolts at 200.

I suppose it would work too if you just left the price as it is and simply had the Xbow come with half ammo but there really shouldn't exist a situation where its beneficial to sell and rebuy the weapon over restocking ammunition.

Problem is there still remains the issue of the price... Sharpshooters spawning with a 600 sell value weapon is a huge advantage over every other perk. Its not a discussion for this topic obviously but short of changing the price of the Xbow which would be fiddly, it might be best to just give the SS the LAR and a Handcannon and remove the problem entirely.

 

[9_6]

Well we kinda seem to want the same thing then.
This'll definitely be a red change btw because it's something that has been in KF from day 1 on and has never been touched upon.
Does everyone agree with the changes?
Did I forget something?

 

[Entangler]

I would've gone for 10 starting bolts, but if you reckon that'd be too harsh then I suppose 20 would do. Other than that, sounds good.

 

[S3R4PH!M]

• Ammo prices for dualies should be the same as for single pistols

when you have to fill TWO pistols it costs TWO times the price for filling one of them.



EDIT: sry forget that i read it wrong. Is the price rly like that?

 

[Acreo Aeneas]

M32 ammo should NOT be that much cheaper than m79 ammo. It's the stronger weapon so either make its ammo more expensive or make a m79 grenade just as expensive as a M32 grenade.

They fire the same HE grenades. Just the M32 carries 6 rounds and the M79 carries one. As for ammo costs, it should ONLY cost as much as M79 ammo.

 

[Compass]

Both the M79 and the M32 have the same damage specs.
M79 Ammo, 10 per grenade (now)
M32 Ammo, 20 per 6 (now)

Proposed - 60 per 6 grenades

---

XBow -> Keep Buy value at 800, Change sell value to 300. So Sharpshooters still only spawn with $300 in usable cash after spamming their XBow, or they can keep it.

 

[Evilsod]

XBow -> Keep Buy value at 800, Change sell value to 300. So Sharpshooters still only spawn with $300 in usable cash after spamming their XBow, or they can keep it.

Er... as far as i know sell value is a flat 75% and not a value entered by anyone. Things would be much nicer if sell value was lowered to 50% but i think Yoshiro said they weren't considering changes to that...

 

[Compass]

Er... as far as i know sell value is a flat 75% and not a value entered by anyone. Things would be much nicer if sell value was lowered to 50% but i think Yoshiro said they weren't considering changes to that...

I don't think the flat 75% is bound into the game, because IIRC the LAW in the past had a lower than normal selling rate.

 

[9_6]

Proposed - 60 per 6 grenades

Okay, concrete values ftw.
I'll go with the expensive grenades then.

 

[Compass]

Grenades to 20 while we're on explosives? Those pineapples are bloody expensive.

 

[9_6]

Grenades to 20 while we're on explosives? Those pineapples are bloody expensive.

Hand grenades are a separate point in that list already.
Either they should be stronger or cheaper.

Edit: actually, screw that.
making them stronger could end up with too strong grenades.
making them cheaper has less potential to break something.
I'll stick with that then. 20 also sounds ok.

 

[Soanos]

when you have to fill TWO pistols it costs TWO times the price for filling one of them.



EDIT: sry forget that i read it wrong. Is the price rly like that?

Noticed that the maximum ammunition capacity stays the same regardless of how many pistols you have?

Let's imagine I have one lawnmower and a fuel canister costs

 

[Aze]

Regarding Demo ammo prices for the M79 and M32, yes they should have the same cost but NO it hould not go with the expensive one as the new price! Demo is already the most expensive perk to keep up, so lowering the cost of the M32 and M79 grenades to something around the M32 ammo cost would be much better imo.

 

[C_Gibby]

Regarding Demo ammo prices for the M79 and M32, yes they should have the same cost but NO it hould not go with the expensive one as the new price! Demo is already the most expensive perk to keep up, so lowering the cost of the M32 and M79 grenades to something around the M32 ammo cost would be much better imo.

The M32 does less damage per shot compared to the M79, I think But that has to be proven (I've preferred M79 to the M32 since the dawn of time )

If my statement is true, M32 should stay lower.

 

[Entangler]

> get M79GrenadeProjectile Damage

350.000000

> get M32GrenadeProjectile Damage

350.000000

I'm not so sure about making them

 

[Aze]

The M32 does less damage per shot compared to the M79, I think But that has to be proven (I've preferred M79 to the M32 since the dawn of time )

If my statement is true, M32 should stay lower.

They are equally strong, as Entangler showed in his post.

But the ammo price for both weapons should be that of the M32, imo.

Anyway, the biggest problem is still Xbow and Hunting Shotty. They REALLY need to get fixed!

 

[9_6]

I'm not so sure about making them