Level Design Ambient Lighting vs. Zones

[SIMOX]

Hello, i have a little problem again. Looks like i have no idea how the ambient lighting works or im just doing it wrong.

I have ambient lighting set on 15 (don't know is that much, but looks fine) in the outside "zone info actor". Inside, zoneinfo's - 0.

Now this place is dark, ofc it won't be so, but i can't make good lighting if doors, players and zombies are bright in that area. Not only here though, but not everywhere.
(Bright - same as they would be walking outside where the ambient lighting is - 15)

Like i have a staircase where the player isn't bright. It's somewhere behind the wooden doors.

White doors on the left leads to the outside (collides with ambient lighting zone), but doors on the right leads to the other room. And doors are still bright.

Maybe my zoning is bad? Don't know what those darker and brighter spots mean.

Example of how i managed to connect zone with ambient -15, with zone with ambient - 0. I know, it doesn't look perfect but it's best i can get.

And when i enter this "Darker" area, player remains bright (by the ambient - 15). Just in some spots or near some lights it turns "Darker" (by the ambient - 0).


So can anyone give me some tips how to fix this madness cuz i tried everything i know and it's still F*** up.

Ofc if possible though.

 

[Murphy]

Maybe my zoning is bad? Don't know what those darker and brighter spots mean.

They just show you how the BSP is cut up by the engine.

Example of how i managed to connect zone with ambient -15, with zone with ambient - 0. I know, it doesn't look perfect but it's best i can get.

It looks very good, imo. Connecting zones with different ambient brightnesses can't be done all that much better.
As you already figured out, you need a visual explanation for the discrepancy in brightness so players don't see anything weird in it but take it as natural. You lighting there is a pretty good cover-up already. Good job.

You could make it even better if you feel you need to by adding a door-frame. Then move the zoneportal to where that ca. 32uu thick doorway connects with the inside. The brightness-border on the ground can be covered up by using grating as the texture for the bottom of the doorway, and the brightness-border on the wall will be explained by the pillars casting shadows.

Would look something like this, then:

Perfectly natural, as you can see.

As for the ZEDs being lit up, I assume the engine lights them as if they were in the other zone. I'm not sure what can be done to fix that. Maybe we could take a look ourselves, if you upload the map.

 

[Falidell]

the dark area doesn't have ambient brightness because that zone doesn't have any ambient brightness. if you insist upon keeping the inside zone without ambient brightness there are 2 ways, that i can think of, that can remedy the instant dark issue. experiment with these remedies and choose the one that works best for you

- very simple way of doing it but tends to have not so good results. add a dim light-source over/near the seam( the zone portal ) to make it look more natural..

- this one is more of an extreme method but can potentially look very nice. make more zones that lead to the no ambient light zone. to make a kind of gradient effect so it's not so instant. and to hide the seams that will be made at the zone portal add some kind of light there. ambient light only effects the zone it's set in. but light actors/entity's are unaffected by zoning.


ALSO-

Maybe my zoning is bad? Don't know what those darker and brighter spots mean.[/qoute]
-well the editor will color each zone differently for easy reference for example your dark blue and teal zones.

-and inside each zone you'll notice that the area has slightly different shaded sections and spots on it. ex. in the teal zone you'll see darker and lighter teal parts of the zone. this is perfectly normal what your seeing is how the world is cut up by "nodes"

more about nodes:
nodes are pretty much things that slide and dice up the world to form the subtract and add brushes that you make and use. and high node count will lag your map up considerably. because the way the game engine renders a level is the same way unrealed renders your level. it reads the nodes and forms the shapes.

things that cut up your world:
add brushes
subtract brushes
intersect brushes
de-intersect brushes

- as you can see the normal brushes made nodes a lot of times using a semi-solid or a non-solid brush is better then using add/intersect/de-intersect brushes because semi/non-solid brushes World almost exactly the same as normal brushes but they don'e make nodes that cut the world.

Things that don't cut up your world
everything other then those 4 brushes

-this is why static meshes work so well with the unreal engine so use semi/non-solids and static meshes instead of normal brushes whenever possible

links:
Nodes
semi-solids
non-solids
now the non-solid page is lacking content but it'll tell you what you can't do with non-solids.

 

[SIMOX]

You could make it even better if you feel you need to by adding a door-frame. Then move the zoneportal to where that ca. 32uu thick doorway connects with the inside. The brightness-border on the ground can be covered up by using grating as the texture for the bottom of the doorway, and the brightness-border on the wall will be explained by the pillars casting shadows.

Would look something like this, then:

Perfectly natural, as you can see.

Indeed it is! This way it looks almost perfect. I didn't add complete door-frame though, only pillars in the sides and some custom Grates texture which i found in google

1.

2.

As for the ZEDs being lit up, I assume the engine lights them as if they were in the other zone. I'm not sure what can be done to fix that. Maybe we could take a look ourselves, if you upload the map.

Well, i'll try to find out what is wrong but if i fail, then i will upload it.

- very simple way of doing it but tends to have not so good results. add a dim light-source over/near the seam( the zone portal ) to make it look more natural..

Tried this at first, but it looked very unreallistic, so i added a lamp over the entrance (See second pic).

- this one is more of an extreme method but can potentially look very nice. make more zones that lead to the no ambient light zone. to make a kind of gradient effect so it's not so instant. and to hide the seams that will be made at the zone portal add some kind of light there. ambient light only effects the zone it's set in. but light actors/entity's are unaffected by zoning.

Tried this also. Well, i had just two off them but i think i couldn't do it better result with more of them than i have now (Only one).

links:
Nodes
semi-solids
non-solids
now the non-solid page is lacking content but it'll tell you what you can't do with non-solids.

Thank you for the info, now i changed some brushes to semi-solids using type>semi-solid. (Guess i can use that right?)

 

[Murphy]

Looks perfect!

When you find a fix for the ZEDs using the wrong ambient lighting be sure to let us know.

 

[ro_sauce]

I've been using projectors to get around that, it's a bit CPU intensive but looks really cool as they shamble through the shadows.

 

[SIMOX]

Ok, I failed after all. Maybe because i don't have enough patience to find out what is wrong.

Although i found out that zoneinfo with ambient lighting placed in small (zoned) room, creates invisible bright-light-field (where only zeds or doors are bright) around that room. That field size is twice as big as room.

Wierd though.

Because of this, i wanted to create some kind testing map. To find out what is wrong and maybe to solve the problem. So i created my own simple textures. Similar to source sdk default textures (I mean that orange and grey). Plus many more.

And then i thought "What if i would create a simple, nice and enjoyable map?"
Cuz simple maps are fun. I mean "simple" but not "small".

So i will stop working on KF-Bridge_Over_a_Hazard and try to make a new unique look and fun map for Killing Floor.

 

[SIMOX]

I'm Back on Track!

I'm Back on Track!

After a long break, i'm back at mapping. So I'm gonna finish that bloody map. Why? Cuz i found where the problem is!


THE PROBLEM:
Zone with ambient lighting expands to the other zones without ambient lighting. That effect is seen only on doors, players and zombies. It expands like 15 meters compared to the player.

My buildings without ambient lighting are inside the zone with ambient lighting. So zone expands ambient lighting to inside of the houses from all possible directions.

THE SOLUTION:
Basically some very smart zoning. Trying to prevent zone with ambient lighting from expanding to the houses from bottom or from some sides where players can't see.

Better solution(s) possible.