Lots of ideas split 3: Perks and weapons

[Aze]

Bump!

 

[Aze]

Bump!

Also, with the feedback from this thread, i have been thinking more about the melee weapons and how to differentiate them more.

First of all, the Machete+Shield is a good way of making the Machete distinct imo. It makes the Machete a good defensive alternative. Also, imo, the Shield should not take any damage from the Siren's scream! The shield should act like a "line of sight" against it
This shield would help alot against some of the perk's "counters" too:
Being able to close in on Husks & Sirens
Being able to defend yourself more easily against Crawler-swarms
Being able to hold up longer against FPs (and let the teammates kill it while you tank it)

The Fire Axe contra Katana can also be differentiated more. How about (instead of the Sweep Attack on the Ironsight-button which i suggested):

Fire Axe
Main Attack - Sweeping attack. The animations already swing with a horizontal axis.
Power Strike - Make this overhead strike REALLY strong, and slightly slower as well. This strike should also basicly ALWAYS stun the target (not Fleshies though) if you do a headshot with it, which should be quite easy considering it's vertical smash.

Katana
Main Attack - Quick attack. This attack should be the highest single-target DPS of all weapons (except the Chainsaw ofc).
Power Strike - Sweep Powerstrike. The animation is already a sweep. Why not makes this attack a cleave attack? The damage shouldn't be very much higher either, than its main quick attack.

Just some hypothetical, random numbers to illustrate them:

Fire Axe Main Sweep - 350 damage, 2 sec cooldown. Cleaves. 175 dps on a single target, 350 dps on 2 targets etc.
Fire Axe Power Smash - 600 damage, 2.7 sec cooldown. Stuns very well. 222 dps.
Katana Main Quickstrike - 275 damage, 1 sec cooldown. 275 dps.
Katana Power Sweep - 450 damage, 2 sec cooldown. 225 dps on single target, 450 dps on 2 targets etc.

This still makes the Katana higher dps on both single target and multitarget, but, for hit-and-run strikes, the Axe's power strike is much more powerful. Also, the Sweeping Power Strike of the Katana should also be a better hit-and-run alternative than it's quick strikes, but the quick strikes should be better DPS on tough targets. All that would make the Axe and Katana be used in quite different ways

And then, like i already suggested before, make the Chainsaw THE highest dps with it's main attack, and the highest "hit and run"-strike with the powerstrike, but, compensate this with higher cost of the weapon and add ammo to make it limited in attack.

Then you have:

Tier 1 (defense) - Machete (+Shield) = Defensive
Tier 1 (offense) - Fire Axe = Stunner + Hit and Run
Tier 2 - Katana = DPS
Tier 3 - Chainsaw = Even higher DPS, but limited and no sweeping attack.

Any thoughts about this?
EDIT: ANOTHER thing the Shield and the ammo on Chainsaw does is making the Berserker actually spend more of his money. Right now, you basicly run with Katana and some backup-weapon not used so very much (Like, Xbow for FPs, and longranging Sirens and Husks), leaving you with alot of money for your teammates after rearming the backup and armor. While that can be a nice thing in a way, it just doesn't... "feel" right to have a perk spend so little money for himself. Sure, even with the Shield and Chainsaw ammo, the money spent wouldn't be WAY higher, but at least slightly higher than the currently super-low amount now and make the perk more ummm... "money-dynamic"? Meh, i guess you get the point.

 

[Aze]

A new idea i recently thought of was about the M14 and SCAR.

The SCAR, if you use Semi-auto and the scope (ironsight) is WAAAAY better to "snipe" with than the M14. The M14's ironsight is very hard to use.
And then the M14, with its lasersight (and crappy ironsight) makes it alot more "assault/storm"-ish.

Aren't those roles kinda reversed??

So, how about swapping the Lasersight and the Scope on the M14 and SCAR?!

That would make the SCAR more assault-ish, instead of sniperish AND would make it more different than the bullpup (other than numerical differences like mag size, damage etc)

And, it would make the M14 more sniper-ish!

The issue i see here though is that the SCAR can't use the secondary fire for both toggling semi/auto-fire and the lasersight. So, either make the lasersight toggeable with the F-button (the Flashlight) or make the lasersight permanent.

 

[Thugdil]

Hey,

So, how about swapping the Lasersight and the Scope on the M14 and SCAR?!

Not bad...
You could also leave the laser to the M14 and make it aktive on scoping (then leave the reddot out of the scope and instead show the laserbeam but slightly faded+ the dot).
Nice idea anyway!
Greetz
Thugdil
PS: Aze already looked for me on steam?^^

 

[Oshkell]

I'm so glad someone thought about riot shields. Good job.

I also like the ideas for Firebugs. I hope TWI seriously considers these suggestions.

 

[Aze]

Bump!

 

[Olivier]

Bump!

Let it go sometimes

 

[Aze]

Let it go sometimes

Let it go?
Considering how much time i have spent thinking about new stuff that serves a purpose and are (hopefully) fun AND taken the time to write together all these things in a more understandable way than my usual cryptical way of thinking/writing (I'm weird and complex, mkay?), you expect me to LET GO?!

Yeah right -.-
I'm not the kind of guy who gives up! >:[

 

[Olivier]

Bump!

Bump!

Bump!

Let it go?
Considering how much time i have spent thinking about new stuff that serves a purpose and are (hopefully) fun AND taken the time to write together all these things in a more understandable way than my usual cryptical way of thinking/writing (I'm weird and complex, mkay?), you expect me to LET GO?!

Yeah right -.-
I'm not the kind of guy who gives up! >:[

You've bumped this thread a few times and the members havent posted anything that was really usefull. I understand that it surely took a great amount of time to write that up, but when everything has been said.... there's no reasons to put this thread back on the top of the list. Bumping this thread could even possibly result in an infraction (ban). So like i said previously, you just have to let it go sometimes.

 

[EricFong]

Let it go?
Considering how much time i have spent thinking about new stuff that serves a purpose and are (hopefully) fun AND taken the time to write together all these things in a more understandable way than my usual cryptical way of thinking/writing (I'm weird and complex, mkay?), you expect me to LET GO?!

Yeah right -.-
I'm not the kind of guy who gives up! >:[

It is good that you are persistence, but if TWI is not gonna add it, they WILL not going add it.

 

[Aze]

Bump!
Generally structured it up more, for an easier read.
Added a few new edits on some of the perks and weapons.

Noteable changes:
-Changed Flare Cannon to Husk Cannon
-Added Modified Flare Gun

 

[Zeron]

It seems every SS discussion Imaginable just devolves into m14 spam hate.

I know it took a while to create, but i think for the good of this game, the m14 should just be taken out and replaced by another weapon. I'm seriously sick of hearing it.

 

[Aze]

It seems every SS discussion Imaginable just devolves into m14 spam hate.

I know it took a while to create, but i think for the good of this game, the m14 should just be taken out and replaced by another weapon. I'm seriously sick of hearing it.

Yes, that is annoying. Especially since it removes the focus of the main point of the thread and just focuses on the M14 instead.

Since TWI took the time to make this weapon, i think it is better to reshape it than trash it. It CAN be made more sharpshooter-ish. I have added some things (in case people missed it) to try and solve some of its issues, while still making it a nice weapon

- Swap the Scope and Laser of the M14 and SCAR*. The SCAR currently is too good as a sniper weapon and the M14 is too good as an assault weapon. (Not only do they invade on eachothers perks, but the SCAR also invades on the Bullpup's area. Why do BOTH weapons have scopes? Then bullpup is the easy to headshot-weapon, AK is the crowd sprayer, and SCAR is the heavy assault weapon.)
- Reduce the ammo of the M14 to 9 spare mags, instead of 14. That reduces ammo to 200 instead of 300. That would reduce some spamming, or at least punish spammers.
- Increase the recoil / reduce the Sharpshooter's recoil reduction on the M14, to make it harder to spam. That way, you don't need to change rate of fire, bcuz the recoil indirectly reduces the rate instead.
- Reduce Sharpshooter's general "rifle/pistol" damage bonus from 60% down to 30% at level 6, further making headshots alot more worth it, instead of making bodyshots.
- Increase it's weight to 8, from 5. That would drastically reduce the amount of weaponry an M14 Sharpie could carry along.

* This would require changing the achievements. Like, Red Dot of Doom, could be changed to Scope of Doom (lol), and require 25 headshots in a row with the M14 while scoped instead. SCAR'd wouldn't need a change though.

All this would make the M14 alot more suiting for the perk, and quite a bit less "noobspammy".

 

[Salad Snake]

I don't think the shield should block Siren screams, diminish them yes, but not nullify.

I'm not even a Sharpie player (mostly Commando/Medic), but I think removing all bodyshot bonuses is a tad harsh. Halving it, sure, but not total removal. I honestly think the smarter thing (if the gunslinger is NOT implemented) would be to adjust each weapon individually instead of altering the perk itself. The M14 currently does way too much damage from bodyshot spamming, yes. The LAR, 9mm, Crossbow, and Handcannon (in my opinion) do not. Simply nerf the EBR (and perhaps the Xbow's headshot multiplier) since the Sharpie was fairly balanced before that was introduced.

In fact, reduce the EBR's base damage considerably, but increase it's headshot multiplier. Too similar to the Xbow? Perhaps, but isn't low base damage/high headshot damage what we're trying to make the Sharpshooter into? Especially his high-tier weapons, which I believe should be more extreme extensions of their respective perks compared to the more all-around low-tier weapons. Just don't make it so that he couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag in a panic situation (say a siren or husk and 2-3 gorefasts spawned on him, something any other perk could fight out of fairly easily on hard, even a Medic) by making him practically unperked even with his preferred weapons if you can't nail the headshot.

The pistols are balanced for Sharpie atm, doesn't that mean that reducing bodyshot damage as a whole would unbalance them? Again, this is under the assumption that the Gunslinger will never exist in-game.




Edit: I realized that we currently already have a weapon in-game that functions exactly like a Slug Shotgun: The Lever Action Rifle. Maybe it doesn't match aesthetically but balance/gameplay-wise it shoots out a moderately powerful and accurate single-hitscan attack with a medium/slow firing rate, just like a slug shotgun in most FPS games.

 

[Compass]

The issue with pistols being balanced for Sharp is that, while they are balanced, few people use them correctly. Dual HCs and 9mms are basically crowd control weapons that extend the M14's crowd control, where the Sharp basically shoots as fast as he can rather than as accurately as he can.

 

[CandleJack]

- Swap the Scope and Laser of the M14 and SCAR*. The SCAR currently is too good as a sniper weapon and the M14 is too good as an assault weapon. (Not only do they invade on eachothers perks, but the SCAR also invades on the Bullpup's area. Why do BOTH weapons have scopes? Then bullpup is the easy to headshot-weapon, AK is the crowd sprayer, and SCAR is the heavy assault weapon.)

I'll stop you here. The SCAR-H Mk17 Mod0 is actually a sniper weapon in real life, that's why it's too good as a sniper weapon. Why both the Bullpup and SCAR have scopes is the same reason the LAR and M14 have open sights. I remember someone saying the Tier 3 weapon is a more powerful version of the Tier 1; this explains it.

- Reduce the ammo of the M14 to 9 spare mags, instead of 14. That reduces ammo to 200 instead of 300. That would reduce some spamming, or at least punish spammers.
- Increase the recoil / reduce the Sharpshooter's recoil reduction on the M14, to make it harder to spam. That way, you don't need to change rate of fire, bcuz the recoil indirectly reduces the rate instead.
- Reduce Sharpshooter's general damage from 60% down to 30%, further making headshots alot more worth it.
- Increase it's weight to 8, from 5. That would drastically reduce the amount of weaponry an M14 Sharpie could carry along.

I've said reduce it to 6+1 (7) mags and make it 140 instead of 300, and i've also said to reduce the recoil reduction (in those words) word the same reason. I disagree with reducing the base damage of the M14, it should be slightly lowered to be the same as the SCAR but otherwise left alone. The perk-increased damage, however should be cut in half for the M14 only. And i agree with the increase in weight.

* This would require changing the achievements. Like, Red Dot of Doom, could be changed to Scope of Doom (lol), and require 25 headshots in a row with the M14 while scoped instead. SCAR'd wouldn't need a change though.

All this would make the M14 alot more suiting for the perk, and quite a bit less "noobspammy".

Actually no, the Red Dot of Doom is tied to the laser sight, not the weapon itself. Moving the laser from one weapon to another would only require the scope to move, and would mean that the SCAR would have to have its giggle-switch moved to semi only to facilitate the use of the laser sight on middle mouse.

 

[Aze]

I'll stop you here. The SCAR-H Mk17 Mod0 is actually a sniper weapon in real life, that's why it's too good as a sniper weapon. Why both the Bullpup and SCAR have scopes is the same reason the LAR and M14 have open sights. I remember someone saying the Tier 3 weapon is a more powerful version of the Tier 1; this explains it.

Oh it IS a sniper weapon... well that explains alot
But just because tier 1 and tier 3 should be similar, doesn't mean they have to be THAT similar. The reason why i think scope-removal of the SCAR makes sense, is cuz ALL THREE weapons of the Commando are quite similar and can get sorta boring, at least imo. (Hence the AR+GL suggestion btw)

I've said reduce it to 6+1 (7) mags and make it 140 instead of 300, and i've also said to reduce the recoil reduction (in those words) word the same reason.

That would (MAYBE) be too low ammo i think, especially if you consider the weight change and damage difference between the LAR and M14. Recoil reduction, yes, cuz that reduces the spammyness without needing an unrealistic ROF-change.

I disagree with reducing the base damage of the M14, it should be slightly lowered to be the same as the SCAR but otherwise left alone.

I never suggested that either...

The perk-increased damage, however should be cut in half for the M14 only.

THAT is exactly what i suggested though! (I don't know if you are emphasizing on what I'm saying, or if you misunderstood my suggestion)
EDIT: I edited the post you quoted so it's (hopefully) more understandable what i mean, cuz we are saying the same thing you know No reduction on the base stats of the M14, just the Sharpie's perk weapon damage bonus. I know you are saying for the M14 only, but i don't see (much) harm in doing so with the LAR and Xbow too actually.

And i agree with the increase in weight.

Actually no, the Red Dot of Doom is tied to the laser sight, not the weapon itself. Moving the laser from one weapon to another would only require the scope to move, and would mean that the SCAR would have to have its giggle-switch moved to semi only to facilitate the use of the laser sight on middle mouse.

Are you SURE it's tied with the laser sight? Is it unreprogrammable or something?
Regarding the SCAR... what? Giggle-switch? I'm suggesting (if it's possible i mean) Middle mouse = Switch between Semi/Auto, Flashlight button (F) = Lasersight toggle OR have the laser always be active (if it's not possible to program it like that)
I mean, you are saying that if the laser and scope switched places between the weapons, you want the SCAR to be Semi-auto only? To me, that makes no sense, i mean, the Commando is the "machinegun / assault rifle" guy, right? (Aka, fullauto / burst weaponry in terms of perk "style")

 

[Salad Snake]

The issue with pistols being balanced for Sharp is that, while they are balanced, few people use them correctly. Dual HCs and 9mms are basically crowd control weapons that extend the M14's crowd control, where the Sharp basically shoots as fast as he can rather than as accurately as he can.

I've always thought of duelies being the "OH SHI-" weapons that a Sharpshooter can use to get out of bad situations (or at least try). The 9mm's don't do enough damage for anything more powerful then a gorefast (so if there's a Husk or Siren behind those clots you're kinda screwed), the duel HC's simply don't have enough bullets in the mags to clear a crowd unless you're scoring headshots (or the crawlers and stalkers will mess you up and force you to reload), so in that way I think they're balanced. The M14's introduction, however, made the pistols redundant, and that's why it needs to be changes. Well, one of the reasons at least.

 

[Aze]

I've always thought of duelies being the "OH SHI-" weapons that a Sharpshooter can use to get out of bad situations (or at least try). The 9mm's don't do enough damage for anything more powerful then a gorefast (so if there's a Husk or Siren behind those clots you're kinda screwed), the duel HC's simply don't have enough bullets in the mags to clear a crowd unless you're scoring headshots (or the crawlers and stalkers will mess you up and force you to reload), so in that way I think they're balanced. The M14's introduction, however, made the pistols redundant, and that's why it needs to be changes. Well, one of the reasons at least.

Exactly. The Dual HC's used to be nice for the Sharpie when the M14 didn't exist. The reason why i hate the M14 is bcuz it has all the benefits of the HCs (The damage, almost the same the rate of fire) but not the downsides (poor aiming, low ammo).
Thus think the HCs are somewhat balanced, but the M14 way too good obviously

However, if the M14 actually became more snipery and less spammable (which i and many other are trying to suggest with less Sharpie recoil reduction, less M14 ammo, swap scope and laser with SCAR, less Sharpie NON-headshot bonus etc), it would be more in the role of the Sharpshooter and i would personally actually like the weapon alot more. The Sharpie then has an actual weakness; close combat. The removal of the handguns and moving it to the Gunslinger would further emphasize on that.
Sure, the LAR and M14 would still be quite okay in close combat, but the Sharpie would not be as good close up as now when not being able to rely on Handguns / M14 spamming as much anymore. The Sharpshooter should be all about taking aim (and thus making Crawlers a little bit more annoying for the Sharpie, due to ironsights and scopes removing quite alot of field of vision).

 

[Zeron]

I love how everyone in this thread seems to think tripwire will actually be implementing this infamous gunslinger perk. It just isn't needed, and the amount of "work"(or so TWI says) involved would be too much for them considering they are too absorbed in RO:HOS.