Ironsights - Screen Positioning

[Sight]

Dear Tripwire,

in most FPS ironsights are centered, so the middle of the screen is where the shot will go.

As a result ironsights are blocking half of the screen and the overview suffers.

It would be very nice to have an option to place the ironsights more to the bottom of the screen, by this ironsights are at the very bottom of your screen and one has a larger field of view while using them.

Of course some players still want the old centered ironsights so it is important to make this feature an option.

A value option would of course be the perfect style
e.G.:

0 = ironsights centered to the middle of the screen

-50 = ironsights are at the very bottom of the screen

Everything between would also possible so the player can set the value which suits best for him.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Zetsumei]

It would be nice to be able to mess around a little however its probably not as easy to code as you say it for the mp portion.

Remember that there is free aim in the first person view as well. So you cant fix the IS completely at the bottom as it should still be able to move down by a big lot.

 

[Hans Ludwig]

I much worried about the FOV. I want this game to be a little more like Arma2 and WWIIONLINE. I think they struck the right balance where it feels realistic without giving you Superman sight.

 

[Tiger2]

Sight, look up the demo vid and you will be surprised. When you go into zoomed in iron sights, you can lower the weapon to the very bottom to get a better view of what you are looking at.

 

[hockeywarrior]

Sight, look up the demo vid and you will be surprised. When you go into zoomed in iron sights, you can lower the weapon to the very bottom to get a better view of what you are looking at.

Yes, similar to ARMA 2 there is a 2-stage ironsighting system. The first stage has no zoom and the sight still has some free aim ability, allowing you to lower/raise it to see targets. Then you can use a second level zoom which snaps the scope/sight to your face and works like the regular RO ironsights for lining up distant shots.

One thing I REALLY don't like about ARMA 2, though, is that there is alot of zoom when using the second stage ironsights. I really hope RO2 stays away from this. A very slight zoom is appropriate to simulate "focusing" on a distant target, but nothing more than that.

 

[Zetsumei]

That got nothing to do with this thread though hockey, Tiger was pointing to the first person free aim system. And got nothing to do with the zoom.

TWI's focus on zoom is to give 1:1 image mapping (Although as I don't run an average monitor everything will be too big for me :\). Which equals to about a 60 degree fov or a 2x zoom in the zoom mode.

 

[hockeywarrior]

That got nothing to do with this thread though hockey, Tiger was pointing to the first person free aim system. And got nothing to do with the zoom.

TWI's focus on zoom is to give 1:1 image mapping (Although as I don't run an average monitor everything will be too big for me :\). Which equals to about a 60 degree fov or a 2x zoom in the zoom mode.

I think it is related ... the OP wanted to know if there was anyway to have a better FoV while aiming at targets, and the system demonstrated in the alpha vids allows you do this.

That is unless he's only talking about where the ironsights are centered on screen. In that case it might be a bit weird or unfair to allow people to move it. Of course nothing is fair anyway, with different monitor sizes, etc.

 

[LogisticEarth]

Iron sights should always be in the center of your screen. If you have the sights aligned properly, the center of your eye should be in-line with the front and rear sight posts. If you're aiming, the rifle will be in the center of your vision.

If you're talking about having a "shouldered" mode, where you're just looking over the sights, and don't have them aligned, that's fine and something different. But if you're aiming down the sights, it has to be in the center of your screen. This is a real life problem with iron sights, and is part of the advantage of having reflex sights.

 

[Zetsumei]

Iron sights should always be in the center of your screen. If you have the sights aligned properly, the center of your eye should be in-line with the front and rear sight posts. If you're aiming, the rifle will be in the center of your vision.

Fully correct but there is one issue here, the centre of the screen is not the same as the centre of your vision. And as a player I'm definitely not focussing solely on the centre of my screen. You might as well end up blurring pretty much the entire screen out because a human can only see sharp with a high enough resolution to read text with a 6 degree fov so everything beyond a 6 degree fov should get blurred then with your definition. (To give an idea the sniper scope in RO gives a 20 degree fov, and that feels like playing with horse flaps already).

In a game moving the mouse doesn't only move the focus point of your eyes, it moves the head of the player, the arms and even the legs. Moving your mouse pretty much rotates your entire body. Aka to not have someone turn his actual legs in game when he's aiming at something, you need free aim, a slight amount of movement where someone would only move with the upper section of the torso.

Next to that real humans cannot continue to focus long at one spot, like e.g the centre of the screen. Which is why at the moment in new ways to measure strabismus they are actually letting users track a moving target. You as a player will look all over your screen for possible enemies, and not just at the centre of the screen (without even knowing it people think they can see everything fully sharp, your brain is that awesome). Once you see an enemy with the fov of your eyes you will actually look at him, and then look through the iron sights and move towards him. The focus point of your eyes moves blazingly fast to multiple places per second.

In real life you can look over the iron sights, so you don't have the iron sights blocking your view. At that point the iron sights wouldn't be in the centre of your view any more either. While you would keep your rifle at your shoulder, so you wouldn't have to shoulder it if an enemy would come up. Having a separate button for shouldered and looking through the iron sights is going way too far.

Remember as well that in game, a lot of features from your real life eyes are being used to see things on screen. No need to simulate things double.

 

[LogisticEarth]

Zetsumei, good points, but there's better ways to handle this than allowing the iron sights to be moved around the screen permanently. More realistically, I'd love to see a system like ArmA where you can activate a "free look" mode and swivel your head around without spinning your whole body. This would solve this issue a bit, and for realism the sights should be raised and mis-aligned a bit to show that you're not looking down the sights properly, and suffer the resulting accuracy problems.

I agree that two seperate "iron-sight" and "shouldered" modes is too much. I was stating that suggesting two modes was fine and fitting with RO's realism, not neccecarily that it would be a good gameplay decision. But locking your iron sights to the bottom of your screen and unrealistically gaining more vertical FOV while still retaining the accuracy of being sighted in would be unrealistic.

EDIT:
Also, I tend to find that I actually keep my eyes locked on the screen and move my FOV around, instead of constantly having my eyes darting about. Maybe it's because my screen is more or less all in focus, and moving my vision to the perhipary actually decreases my focus on most of the screen. You said you play on a larger monitor, so that might not be the case for you.

 

[Zetsumei]

Also, I tend to find that I actually keep my eyes locked on the screen and move my FOV around, instead of constantly having my eyes darting about. Maybe it's because my screen is more or less all in focus, and moving my vision to the perhipary actually decreases my focus on most of the screen. You said you play on a larger monitor, so that might not be the case for you.

I'm talking about the basic function of an eye, people simply cannot focus on a single point they keep shifting around. You just wont notice yourself. Like when reading this text here, you can actually only see about a width of 6 words sharp, while it feels like you can see the entire document sharp. Its just your brain playing magic on you, while its moving like a lunatic over the page. Its one of things people find out when trying to make a machine that tries to measure someone's level of strabismus (cross-eyedness).

And gaining more vertical fov isn't that unrealistic either, as the fov you can see on a computer monitor is less than what you can see in real life.

ArmA indeed allows you to move your head independently from the weapon, however even when you don't press the free look button there is freeaim in the first person mode as well. (Too heavy even for my tastes it feels like I got mouse acceleration on ).

Personally I don't care that much for free aim, and if anything I would be afraid that it will feel like playing with mouse acceleration on. I just don't think that you can write it off as fully unrealistic as there are just too many ways to look at the situation.

 

[Flogger23m]

The sights should be positioned where they should be in real life, or as close as possible.

RO's sights do seem too centered, as with most games, it looks like your rifle's stock is against the middle of your chest.

Fix that, and it will be good.

Variable potions is not realistic, and will give other plays a disadvantage.

And, we have free aim to.

 

[Reise]

This discussion sounds familiar.

 

[Zetsumei]

The sights should be positioned where they should be in real life, or as close as possible.

RO's sights do seem too centered, as with most games, it looks like your rifle's stock is against the middle of your chest.
.

Depends on how you consider the camera to function. Do you think its more like you're sitting in a mech, so the camera is attached directly to the torso, and you sit a bit above it at eye hight. Aka the sight of the screen is aligned with the torso. Meaning the gun IS would be off centre towards the right.

However if you consider the camera to be attached to a moving head, (especially with track-ir etc). Then the centre of the camera is where the head is pointing to. Which would make it so that the iron sight of the gun should be approximately in the middle.

Finally you can consider the camera is in the eyeball of a player, for which it would mean that the camera is focussed exactly at the dead centre of the screen. (Unless you expect the image to be somewhat composed of 2 eyes in a similar fashion to how binoculars often look in games)

Personally I prefer the first definition because your camera directly moves your body. It makes the most sense for me that the camera is mounted directly to the torso at eye height. Which for me would mean that indeed the gun IS should be to the right if If I had a right handed character. But a lot of people have different views. And as it's all based on the factor of immersion there is no right way.

Around the centre of the screen is more convenient because you will then have an equal fov on the left and right side. And simply having the iron sights lower got the advantage of having your gun blocking your view less. You got more bottom and top fov in real-life than your screen shows. But pretty much only the fov above your gun is useful so it makes sense to give you more of that than the bottom fov.

If any view is odd its probably when hip shooting, where it rather looks like your camera is in your chest. But otherwise you simply wouldn't be able to see where the darn thing is pointing at while you would have an idea in real life due to muscle memory.

 

[<animal>INSTINCT]

I'm not 100% clear on what you're proposing, do you want the ability to keep the weapon shouldered but lower your weapon so you can see more and snap into IS with a button press? Or do you want the ability to change the settings so that when you are in IS, the sights are lower on the screen?

The former is a great idea IMO, and ROOST sort of had this where if you paused between bolting a rifle, the gun would stay shouldered but lower so you could see more of the screen until you bolted the rifle.

The latter seems too unrealistic IMO. When you aim down the sights of a gun, only one eye is open, and that eye is staring down the sights. In order for you to correctly use a gun's IS, they must be in the dead center of your vision, otherwise the sights don't line up. Therefore, it is impossible to correctly aim with IS unless they are in the dead center of your vision, which in video games means the center of the screen

 

[Zetsumei]

Im not suggesting anything. I just say that center of vision is not necessarily the center of the screen. Center of vision for me is what I as user look at. And not where a non existent cross-hair looks at.