What else can we do?

[SocksFoHands]

I don't care about levelling. I do care that the map will be gone from pretty much every server now. This is bull****. A few people on the forums ***** and moan about a map and it gets canned? I found a map with free spawning AA12's and two corridors for bloats to come down and apparently that's fine. The same people as last time ***** about a popular map and it's gone.

Where are the actual exploits? Where are the places you can hide where specimens can't get to you?

One more reason for me to drop KF and not buy another TW game.

 

[TheBlackCheetah]

What will you all complain about when you are all level 6?

~JakeSully

 

[Deafmute]

Where are the actual exploits? Where are the places you can hide where specimens can't get to you?

One more reason for me to drop KF and not buy another TW game.

To be fair, there is an exploit where you can hide under the stairs and nothing can get you.

I'm not sure why the like, six people who have whined about this care so much though. It's pretty sad but oh well. I love TW as a company and KF is a good game but I'm pretty much done with it now. I say just play the game and have fun or find a hobby but I guess there's always something to complain about.

Ah well.

 

[kingkong]

yeah I've heard about the stairs exploit, but honestly I haven't seen it used even once in my entire time as player or admin with this map on rotation. even on servers that run it 24/7, not even once. which really leads me to doubt its effectiveness and whether this was just a "convenient" excuse, I figured I would have seen it being used on those servers played expressly for grinding if it was a real problem.

 

[SMIFF]

I don't care about levelling. I do care that the map will be gone from pretty much every server now. This is bull****. A few people on the forums ***** and moan about a map and it gets canned? I found a map with free spawning AA12's and two corridors for bloats to come down and apparently that's fine. The same people as last time ***** about a popular map and it's gone.

Where are the actual exploits? Where are the places you can hide where specimens can't get to you?

One more reason for me to drop KF and not buy another TW game.

Wow, chill out, its just a map.

and for the 3rd time in this thread, theres 2 known exploits in defence, and another one i found, i wont say them again.

 

[omarfw]

Leveling is a part of the fun. You should know that. Hell this entire game was built around that concept.

no it wasn't. i bet you will stop playing once you reach level 6 on all your perks.

IT'S A ZOMBIE SHOOTER FPS. EVERYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN KNOWS THAT THE POINT OF EVERY SINGLE ZOMBIE SHOOTER EVER MADE IS TO HAVE FUN SHOOTING ZOMBIES. EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY.

I would have just as much fun with this game if it had no perks to level at all.

One more reason for me to drop KF and not buy another TW game.

Your loss

 

[acolyte_to_jippity]

personally, i gotta say i loved doom2. it was challenging on hard normally. sure, it's not my normal style of map, but the one room w/ the law spawn is fun to hold out against everything. of course, demos always screw up my aim, and we get killed by a suddenly enraged fp that i can't take down quick enough.

votekick ensues ^_^

 

[TheBlackCheetah]

The sky people are coming Eywa help us!


~JakeSully~ of the Jarhead clan.

 

[Benjamin]

I've always felt that things like levelling and achievements are just a cheap way to extend playability, and while I used to enjoy them in games I'm starting to feel the opposite way now. Particularly when it's achieved simply by playing a long time (or doing something extremely monotonous for a shorter period of time), and has such an impact on your combat ability that it's almost required if you want to play on the harder difficulty levels. I'd much rather your effectiveness in combat is decided by skills aquired over time (such as accuracy, reflexes, and good strategy).

However I realise it's necessary to have levelling in a game like this to enhance its life, and while some players seem to care more about grinding their stats than playing well with others, they aren't all like this, and besides more players isn't a bad thing. So, I'm not against levelling in a game like this. I'd just like to see a revised system that doesn't overall boost a player's effectiveness, but allows them to use enhanced abilities or weapons when they have proved themselves capable, allowing them to move deeper into their role and away from others (such as support moving slower but having lower recoil, taking less damage, and maybe being able to carry weapons that can be dropped but not immediately equipped by the carrier).

So if it were up to me, I'd replace the perk system with one that requires each perk to properly fill its roll, and prove the player's skill before allowing them to advance to the next level. For example, the sharpshooter's headshot requirement makes sense since it requires some skill, but it should be necessary to perform headshots from certain minimum distances, and other useful tasks that the sharpshooter could do. When you gain a level you could (for example) be granted the use of a scope on other weapons, although the effectiveness of firing from the hip could be reduced, meaning while you have better long-range effectiveness you have lowered close-range effectiveness. I'm not saying it should be harder or easier to play when levelling up, but I think you should be required to slightly alter your style so that you may be more effective. Of course, you'd also need to be able to select any acquired perk level, since you may want the benefits of support but not the disadvantages of a high level one. Using a low level perk would therefore be more of an all-rounder choice - good for beginners.

One problem with such a system that gives you more varied opportunities without necessarily giving your weapons more power is that the gameplay (the AI in particular) would have to be altered so that a more skilled player would be able to handle the highest difficulty levels, even when using a 0 level perk. Altering the system so that this is possible could be tricky, as it'd require possibly giving enemies different strategies and moves on harder difficulties, for example.

 

[anthracy]

Just to sum up the,"Few people on the forums are complaining about it." banter on the steam forums and now here, It was taken off the whitelist because of exploits posted in the "current whitelist" thread.

We had nothing to do with it, however, we are complaining about the specimen only mutators(particularly poundamonium and bloated.)

Those mutators can turn any map into a grindfest and something seriously has to be done. Otherwise, don't come in here and spout nonsense about us complaining and having it taken off. It's a cheap map, you know it is, and you can hide behind all your pseudo-principals all you want. But do it for the right reason, because we had NOTHING to do with the guy that posted the staircase screenshot in the forum

 

[dogbadger]

obviously leveling is an real important thing when it's about stopping ppl doing it reletivly easily, but suddenley not a big deal after all when you're actually stopped.

oh an on the subject I saw an outrageous exploit on filthscross being used the other day (and i'm not talking about the ones that only work with FPs) - i would have though it was common knowledge but as this map is whitelisted i presume not?

 

[anthracy]

obviously leveling is an real important thing when it's about stopping ppl doing it reletivly easily, but suddenley not a big deal after all when you're actually stopped.

oh an on the subject I saw an outrageous exploit on filthscross being used the other day (and i'm not talking about the ones that only work with FPs) - i would have though it was common knowledge but as this map is whitelisted i presume not?

PM Someone (Yoshiro is probably use to it by now) and tell them the map and location if you don't have a screenshot.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

Just to sum up the,"Few people on the forums are complaining about it." banter on the steam forums and now here, It was taken off the whitelist because of exploits posted in the "current whitelist" thread.

exactly. the posted exploits got it removed just like any map would if their exploits were reported. but, but, but, why not still play it? the map is still so much fun to play even though you can't level right? i'll go host a 24/7 Defence server with perk replacement mutator on for people to have all the fun they want! pretty simple, if you are so desperate to get your favorite map back on the whitelist so you can level on it, you could always pm the mapper and ask him to fix it.

We had nothing to do with it, however, we are complaining about the specimen only mutators(particularly poundamonium and bloated.) Those mutators can turn any map into a grindfest and something seriously has to be done.

this is the real culprit. those mutators have single handedly ruined this game. easy poundamonium, suicidal bloated, any level clotted. hell you know it's pretty bad when within the forums there are guides telling players "if you want to level ex. perk in 2 hours, load ex. mutator or ex. map and you'll be level6 in no time". if those boys under the stairs on Defence had to worry about manditory husks, bloats and sirens, the exploit wouldn't be effective.

Otherwise, don't come in here and spout nonsense about us complaining and having it taken off. It's a cheap map, you know it is, and you can hide behind all your pseudo-principals all you want. But do it for the right reason, because we had NOTHING to do with the guy that posted the staircase screenshot in the forum

and all those who come and whine about people whining are equally whiners are they not? at least some of us are hypocritical about it . plus i thought everyone said the map was played for the fun not the easy leveling. why aren't people having fun on it anymore? oh, because the "fun" aspect had nothing to do with the map itself, but the act of cheap grinding. so, the map makes no difference as the players aren't playing for the map, they are playing for the gameplay. with so many other maps available for grinding, why not go have "fun" on those maps?

 

[omarfw]

plus i thought everyone said the map was played for the fun not the easy leveling. why aren't people having fun on it anymore? oh, because the "fun" aspect had nothing to do with the map itself, but the act of cheap grinding. so, the map makes no difference as the players aren't playing for the map, they are playing for the gameplay. with so many other maps available for grinding, why not go have "fun" on those maps?

indeed, they did try to claim it wasn't about the leveling. until they couldn't level anymore. now they deny they ever said that.

when you break it all down, it all comes down to who wants to actually have fun playing a game and who just wants a bigger e-dick

 

[mamoo]

Jeez, I really hope KF2 won't have a leveling system, or some sort of way to stop bull****ters whining when they can't blow up 20 bloats in one M79 'nade.

 

[anthracy]

Fish in a barrel mode?

Infinitely many level ups, infinite ammo, infinite health, infinite zeds, infinite money, infinite weapons, infinite fun right?

 

[HaTeMe]

I found a map with free spawning AA12's and two corridors for bloats to come down and apparently that's fine. The same people as last time ***** about a popular map and it's gone.

Where are the actual exploits? Where are the places you can hide where specimens can't get to you?

One more reason for me to drop KF and not buy another TW game.

Ehem. Our goal is not to de-whitelist popular maps, its maps with exploits and which allow easy levelling without fear of getting killed. There were multiple reasons why Defense was one

1. Camp under the stairs and specimens cant reach you.
2. Trader wall bug (allowed you to get stuck in a wall above specimens)
3. Pre-welded doors and windows right next to them, which allowed you to prevent patty from reaching the castle (or any other specimen for that matter)

I seriously dont understand whats the huge problem, I still see tons of maps with KF-Defense running, I even joined one and told them its not whitelisted anymore but they didnt seem to believe me or care (got no response).

Besides there are plenty of mappers out there, someone might want to consider making a version of KF-Defense which DOESNT have the problems mentioned above and provides an actual challenge, along with some graphical changes maybe.

I'm not sure why the like, six people who have whined about this care so much though. It's pretty sad but oh well.

Sad? I consider using exploits to beat the game sad.

Do you think I enjoy it when Im playing Departed and the rest of the team decides to use that famous exploit to get on top of a building and camp there while Im all alone down the ground playing the game like it should be, and prolly getting killed by 300+ specimens?

Almost every map atm has some kind of exploit and thats what we are looking to get rid of here. Same thing applied to Defense. I wouldnt mind playing that map if it actually provided some challenge, because I just dont find it very exciting to sit around in the tower while literally 200 pipebombs are doing all the work for me.

Maps being de-whitelisted will encourage the creators to fix their maps in order to get back in the whitelist. If they dont fix them... well, maybe someone else will.

oh an on the subject I saw an outrageous exploit on filthscross being used the other day (and i'm not talking about the ones that only work with FPs) - i would have though it was common knowledge but as this map is whitelisted i presume not?

I have already reported that to JustFilth and he said he is aware of the glitch, and has fixed it, send it to Tripwire, but they still havent updated the map.

 

[SMIFF]

i added some more to that defence map, got rid of all the known exploits, except that trader bug that HaTeMe said, il have to take a look.

and added roof access, interior spawns and a sky city type thing, a second trader.

i havnt released it seeing as its not my map to release though.

 

[Nenjin]

There's nothing wrong with releasing someone else's map that you've modified as long as you give due credit. Some might get touchy if you didn't ask permission, but by and large I think most are ok with "remixes."

 

[SMIFF]

There's nothing wrong with releasing someone else's map that you've modified as long as you give due credit. Some might get touchy if you didn't ask permission, but by and large I think most are ok with "remixes."

Nice, alot still needs doing though, i might get rid of the pre welded doors aswell cos if your at the top of the sky city then it takes a good minute and a half before those zeds come to you and thats AFTER they come through the door.

Funny when you fall off though..