Pistols for each class

[Zeptorem]

Its been metnioned before actually, its not a bad idea.. although the main issue is that these things can explode doing it.. I dunno abut you guys but in a zombie apocalyplse I'd take a 2x4 over a can that could blow my hand off any day

Except it can't...

Unless you throw the can into a roaring fire, holding a lighter up to a can of hairspray doesn't have the risk of detonation. Neither does it make a very good weapon unless you just want to singe some hair off your enemy...

i have played the incendiary mod and its fantastic ^^
i would like to see incendiary ammo in this game

[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=36746[/URL]

We already have incendiary ammo, except we call them "tracers".

Specimens aren't made out of petroleum gel. They won't magically burst into flames when hit with something burning. I would play L4D2 if I wanted arcade-y "powerups".

I think, Medic can use a "Poison Gun".
For Berserk - 600 Nitro Express Magnum (http://www.vincelewis.net/60magnum.html). Another classes cant shoot from this, becouse they cant hold that gun.

Sorry for my bad english.

There's so much more you should be sorry for...

Please, for the love of all that is good and holy, don't suggest that stupid goddamn gun anymore.

I was talking about creating a custom revolver based on the S&W 500 shooting a Wildcat cartridge but I found out there is already a wildcat like that. It's called the 50-70-750. It's a .50 BMG bullet it a 50-70 Governmet case. You could potentially load .50 BMG exlosive round into the case. I don't know if it'd have enough velocity to set of the HE when fired from the 50-70 case but its not important I guess. I was just using something that could at least be *plausible.*

plausible

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Well... at least your heart's in the right place...

I really like the idea of different sidearms per class, but...

Berserker -> shurikens? Aw, come on, it's not a kung-fu movie, these things are practically useless in real combat. Change it to throwing knives.

HAHAHAH

You realize that "throwing knives" are just about as useless in real combat, right? I mean, if we're going for realism...

Unlike throwing knives (with the possible exception of ballistic knives, which no one really uses anyway), shurikens were actually used in combat, though mostly to distract or to provide minor injuries. And hey, as long as we're talking about things that are "practically useless in real combat":

Firebug -> Flare gun, something like that: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=39710

The flare gun is a good idea if used strictly as an illumination device. Real-world flare guns are about as good at inflicting physical wounds as harsh language is.

Demo -> Not another grenade thing, plz! It's suicide when something comes closer. Some equivalent of beretta would be much better. For example Walther P99.

This is actually a decent idea.

This thread got gimmicky really fast when people were just thinking up ridiculous weapons to fit the perk they'd be used by. The default pistol is, unlike perk-specific weapons, meant to be a multipurpose, last-ditch and early-wave weapon. Giving perks another specialized weapon in place of that just seems kind of silly.

 

[Neo Mara]

We already have incendiary ammo, except we call them "tracers".

Specimens aren't made out of petroleum gel. They won't magically burst into flames when hit with something burning. I would play L4D2 if I wanted arcade-y "powerups".

Actually incendiary ammo and tracers are not the same thing.

And who's to say what the Zeds are made of? I don't think Tripwire has ever adressed this. And does it really even matter for the sake of gameplay? It's not like a zombie apocalypse is real possible either.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Well... at least your heart's in the right place...

Not that it matters for this thread, but on what grounds? It seems to me based on your comment quoted above, you don't know as much about guns as you think you do.

There is already a wildcat cartridge with a .50 BMG bullet loaded into a 50-70 Government Case. I have included a picture.

There is already a .50 BMG bullet with a small explosive charge.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211[/URL]

So you tell me, what is so implosible about a custom revolver chambered in 50-70-750 when much larger custom revolvers already exist?
[url]http://www.vincelewis.net/60magnum.html[/URL]

 

[jackel410]

Actually incendiary ammo and tracers are not the same thing.

And who's to say what the Zeds are made of? I don't think Tripwire has ever adressed this. And does it really even matter for the sake of gameplay? It's not like a zombie apocalypse is real possible either.



Not that it matters for this thread, but on what grounds? It seems to me based on your comment quoted above, you don't know as much about guns as you think you do.

There is already a wildcat cartridge with a .50 BMG bullet loaded into a 50-70 Government Case. I have included a picture.

There is already a .50 BMG bullet with a small explosive charge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211[/URL]

So you tell me, what is so implosible about a custom revolver chambered in 50-70-750 when much larger custom revolvers already exist?
http://www.vincelewis.net/60magnum.html[url]http://www.vincelewis.net/60magnum.html[/URL]

Did you read the whole page about the .600 nitro?

Because of its size the Pfeifer-Zeliska .600 Nitro Express Magnum would really be required to be fired whilst resting on a bench clamp or small sand bags as shown in the image below.​

The gun weighs in at total of 13.23lbs and consequently is heavy enough to absorb most of the violent recoil. In fact it is said to be on scale to firing the Smith & Wesson .50 Magnum.​

The recoil is not uncontrollable, but instead, tamed by the guns weight. A bi-pod and shoulder stock may be in order though.​

I don't see this as feasible. Muzzle energy is also rated at 7591 ft/lbs or 3.5 tons per square foot. It would penetrate every zed in the wave. Yes possible, but not a very good example for your case. Why not do it the easy way and just include the S&W .500? That is seriously way more stopping power then we need already. And the 50-70-750 Is generally a custom made round. We really don't need hand artillery.

 

[Neo Mara]

Did you read the whole page about the .600 nitro?

I don't think you understood what I was saying. I was not suggesting the game include that revolver. I was simply stating that large custom revolvers are a reality.

It was my suggestion that *if* and only if you wanted to have a real life counter-part to a gun with explosive rounds, a custom S&W 500 rechambered to 50-70-750 loaded with a raufoss round would meet that goal from items that are currently availible.

I am also saying that I don't think you *have* to link a gun in game to something in real life if you don't want to. Any old pistol with imaginary exploding bullets is not going to ruin the gameplay.

And as far as the 50-70-750 being "hand artillery" it actually has less energy that many S&W 500 loadings. I simply chose the 50-70-750 round because it can load .50 BMG bullets which are actually .510 diameter, where as .500 S&W bullets are a true .50" and .50 BMG bullets would thus be too big.

All and all it really doesn't matter, if you want to give the Demo a handgun with exploding bullets just give him whatever you want and make the bullets explode.

 

[Temstar]

Guys guys it doesn't have to be that complicated if you want a plausible explosive shooting pistol. M203 grenade launchers are used in stand alone config with a pistol grip as a modern day miniture M79 all the time. Alternatively, find a very small shotgun (like a MAG-7), and equipe it with FRAG-12 rounds.

 

[Zeptorem]

Actually incendiary ammo and tracers are not the same thing.

Below .50BMG, tracers are pretty much the only flavour of incendiary ammo.

And who's to say what the Zeds are made of?

Somehow I don't think Horzine would deliberately make flammable zombies, but whatever mental gymnastics gets you through the day, I guess...

I don't think Tripwire has ever adressed this. And does it really even matter for the sake of gameplay? It's not like a zombie apocalypse is real possible either.

There's "suspension of disbelief" and then there's "suspension of thought". It's hard to "get into" a game where the enemies magically bust into flame from being shot with a tiny, burning bullet that would, in any reasonable universe, just pass through and leave a cauterized little wound.

Not that it matters for this thread, but on what grounds? It seems to me based on your comment quoted above, you don't know as much about guns as you think you do.

Maybe you should go through my comment history.

There is already a wildcat cartridge with a .50 BMG bullet loaded into a 50-70 Government Case. I have included a picture.

Do you happen to have a degree in Obvious, Dr. Obvious? Unlike people who reply to my posts, I actually read the posts I reply to. I saw your niche cartridge.

Zillions of wildcat cartridges are banging around, few of which have any real practical benefit. Hell, why not a .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer rifle for the Sharpshooter? Or a .17/.50BMG bersa thunder handgun? After all, they exist...

There is already a .50 BMG bullet with a small explosive charge.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211[/URL]

So you tell me, what is so implosible about a custom revolver chambered in 50-70-750 when much larger custom revolvers already exist?
[url]http://www.vincelewis.net/60magnum.html[/URL]

No one's doubting the possibility, I'm just doubting the plausibility of using it to shoot things more dangerous than a soup can or a honeydew. You could, in theory, have a handgun that shoots tactical silicon vibrators that explode on impact into a flaming miasma of compressed flatulence, but that doesn't mean it would make a good video game weapon, does it? (it actually kinda does, in retrospect, but maybe not for Killing Floor)

A handgun that size is pretty much a step below a crew-served field piece.

What's this obsession with finding the biggest, heaviest, stupidest gun to cram into Killing Floor with reckless disregard for balance or aesthetic consistency?

Guys guys it doesn't have to be that complicated if you want a plausible explosive shooting pistol. M203 grenade launchers are used in stand alone config with a pistol grip as a modern day miniture M79 all the time.

Miniature? They shoot the exact same round.

 

[Neo Mara]

Maybe you should go through my comment history.

haha I'm not a masochist.

this thread is ready for a lock, I think.

 

[Zeptorem]

haha I'm not a masochist.

this thread is ready for a lock, I think.

It was pointless as soon as it was made. You talk about the problem...

The sharpshooter has an advantage with pistols in that it's the only class that gets a bonus with the 9mm. You start with it, it weighs almost nothing and so its basically free ammo with no weight penalty. It cannot be sold though and if you're playing another class and you dont get the bonuses you're stuck with it.

...and instead of going to the obvious and Occam's Razor-compatible solution of "remove sharpshooter's bonuses with the 9mm and bump up its base stats", you go off with increasingly ludicrous suggestions for a bunch of different pistols each, mind you, with a whole other set of balance concerns for TWI to test and tweak.

Too complicated a solution for a very simple problem.

 

[robdude19]

I'm totally with Zep on this, I can't believe people are still arguing for overpowered sidearms to back up their overpowered weapons. Keep in mind that the game's difficulty was not adjusted when the new guns came out. The game is easy enough already. Just take pistol boost away from SS and adjust weights so he can carry LAR (but not M14) with xbow.

 

[Temstar]

Miniature? They shoot the exact same round.

"The break-open action of the M79 allows it to use longer rounds that the standard M203 cannot use"

But of course most of the time both M79 and M203 fire 40x46mm grenades, which work for both.

I actually meant that fact that M203 in stand alone config is smaller than a M79 since it doesn't have a stock.

But if we don't want to go for that, we still have the option of a single shot break action shotgun firing Frag-12

 

[anthracy]

I'm totally with Zep on this, I can't believe people are still arguing for overpowered sidearms to back up their overpowered weapons. Keep in mind that the game's difficulty was not adjusted when the new guns came out. The game is easy enough already. Just take pistol boost away from SS and adjust weights so he can carry LAR (but not M14) with xbow.

The overwhelming theme on this forum is,"People want to make the game easier, or they want it to end as soon as possible."

No one wants an actual challenge anymore and it is beginning to get on my nerves.

As for the lar with xbow thing..... why?

As far as I am concerned if you keep the headshot bonus as crazy it is on the xbow to the point where a fleshpound can drop in one shot, the xbow should be the only thing you can carry. (you shouldn't even be able to hold a pistol.)

But only Tripwire knows what the future brings to Sharpshooter, Berserker, and Firebug.

 

[Zeptorem]

"The break-open action of the M79 allows it to use longer rounds that the standard M203 cannot use"

But of course most of the time both M79 and M203 fire 40x46mm grenades, which work for both.

I actually meant that fact that M203 in stand alone config is smaller than a M79 since it doesn't have a stock.

doesn't have a stock

Hrmmmm...

But if we don't want to go for that, we still have the option of a single shot break action shotgun firing Frag-12

Are we still talking about replacements for the 9mm? Or have we just abandoned that and are moving straight on to things that would make an already powerful class more powerful?

 

[CandleJack]

Did you read the whole page about the .600 nitro?

Because of its size the Pfeifer-Zeliska .600 Nitro Express Magnum would really be required to be fired whilst resting on a bench clamp or small sand bags as shown in the image below.​

The gun weighs in at total of 13.23lbs and consequently is heavy enough to absorb most of the violent recoil. In fact it is said to be on scale to firing the Smith & Wesson .50 Magnum.​

The recoil is not uncontrollable, but instead, tamed by the guns weight. A bi-pod and shoulder stock may be in order though.​

I don't see this as feasible. Muzzle energy is also rated at 7591 ft/lbs or 3.5 tons per square foot. It would penetrate every zed in the wave. Yes possible, but not a very good example for your case. Why not do it the easy way and just include the S&W .500? That is seriously way more stopping power then we need already. And the 50-70-750 Is generally a custom made round. We really don't need hand artillery.

Excuse me but how much is 13.23 lbs in a real measurement? Not everyone in the world (KF, or otherwise) uses your unique measurements. I say this so that everyone knows what your saying.

 

[CandleJack]

Excuse me again but how is having a gun that shoots Raufoss MK211 .50BMG rounds not instantly and permantently OP? You have the penetration of the XBow, the damage of the M14, an explosive like the M79 and the potential to 1shot Husks; because who knows what powers the fireball launcher?

I think i skipped most of this debate, but the Raufoss MK 211 caught my eye.

 

[Madhate969]

Wow this is getting real complicated. I just though it would be nice for each perk to start with a gun that fit their class, and also could be used to level up their class (like the SS is already, and the medic can). Other than the SS, medic, and demo (grenades count) all other perks need a couple of hundred before they can start working their perk.
Also I think it would be nice flavor, for a fire bug to use fire. I've seen other threads complain about people useing off perk weapon, (SS getting head shot bonus with a Scar, commando getting reload bonus on the nade launcher) I didn't think it was a problem, but for those who do think people should stick to perk weapon, I think a good start would be to start them off with a perk weapon.
None of the weapons should do much more damage that the other, yes commando is going to fire faster, and the FB is going to cause flame, but I don't think it would be impossible to balance a small, short range, lower damage weapon to start with , and to pull out when you run out of ammo, or get surrounded. I still the basic Idea is good, even if some of the suggestions may have been too powerful.

note- I do not want the game to be easier, when I want something easy I play on a lower level. I don't think a style/flavor change on the weakest gun in a persons arsonal, will make the game much easier.

 

[k_murdah]

I've seen other threads complain about people useing off perk weapon, (SS getting head shot bonus with a Scar, commando getting reload bonus on the nade launcher) I didn't think it was a problem, but for those who do think people should stick to perk weapon

While I agree I uh..I don't see how changing our sidearms which weigh 1 block of weight I think is really gonna reinforce this line of thought.

Oh wow..didn't see that these are supposed to get bonuses. I'm for each class having a customized sidearm but no bonuses. I'd rather take the 9mm buffs away from SS, if for no other reason than it makes leveling SS too easy.

 

[murph500]

i like the g18 idea i use commando 24/7 and the 9 mm is useless when im carying a machete ak and scar

 

[Zeptorem]

i like the g18 idea i use commando 24/7 and the 9 mm is useless when im carying a machete ak and scar

It's SUPPOSED to be useless in comparison to the SCAR and AKM! It's the default last-ditch and beginning wave weapon!

Why you ought to have a third useful firearm is utterly beyond me (other than to make the game easier...)