Sharpshooter reconfiguration

[Neo Mara]

Please do not lock this thread and point to the thread in General Discussion, that thread is just a moan fest.

This thread is about changing the Sharpshooter into a class who must take headshots, changing him into a 'sharpshooter' instead of a one man army. These changes are ment to work as a whole.

General Changes:
1. Sharpshooter perk loses bonus to base weapon damage but gains more headshot damage bonus to make up for it, so that total headshot damage remains unchanged. This penalizes the Sharpshooter for spamming his guns, forcing him to take more careful shots even on the smallest of zeds.

2. Sharpshooter gets a faster sight picture perk. When you go to use the iron sights, its takes a bit of time. Not a lot but if you want to encourage the Sharpshooter to use sights don't penalize for using the irons. Perk speeds up the time it takes to get tot he irons.

3. Steady hand perk: Iron sights settle faster OR don't sway at all. If you use the irons sights there are two things that let you get back on your target faster. First, recoil. Sharpshooter has less recoil, even when using the irons. But the second thing that does NOT change is how the sights sway after a shot. Sights should settle faster for a sharpshooter or not sway at all besides recoil if you want to encourage using the irons as a Sharpshooter.

M14 Changes:
1. M14 and the SCAR should swap laser sight and Aimpoint (edit: 9_6 says: or just swap weapons completely, Commando's M14 has full auto, Sharpshooter SCAR is semi only). The laser sight is a crutch and allows more accurate firing from the hip and firing on the go which is not the point of the Sharpshooter. It would be perfect for the Commando though, so switch the two.

2A. M14 goes down to 9 mags. It already has too much ammo and that encourages spamming the weapon in crowds and not going for headshots. Drop the ammo down and makes the Sharpshooter use the Lever Action or Handcannon to dispatch smaller zeds.

2B. M14 goes down to 5-6 mags but gets small base damage boost. I actually prefer this one. Right now the M14 is next to useless once Fleshpounds start to appear and taking down the big zeds is just what the Sharpshooter should be concentrating on. Again, the sharpshooter must use the Lever Action or Handcannon for smaller Zeds while being careful not to waste the M14 ammo.

Thoughts?

edit: adjusted mag numbers after play test.
edit2: added new general changes.

 

[nath2009uk]

Lvl 6 Sharpy can 3 shot Fleshies with the m14, I saw it

To 1). No.
Commando is my favourite class, and the Laser sight would probably just end up making the SCAR even more unbalanced and OP. D:

 

[ScarFace]

Right now the M14 is next to useless once Fleshpounds start to appear

Are you retarded? The M14 is the best all around gun in the game BAR NONE. Although it lacks the 1 shot take down power of the xbow, it has an insane amount of ammo, its semi auto, and its reload is lightening fast.

The M14 can take out ANY normal zed with a head shot or if not a few body shots. Additionally you can drop a fleshpound all by yourself on ANY level with 6 players inside of a clips worth of ammo (head shots of course). As it sits now the M14 can mop up trash AND take down big boys with the quickness.

If you don't know this about the M14 already you're obviously using it wrong.

** Let it be known that I do believe that M14 is way too powerful and it needs an "appropriate" nerf.

 

[geon02file]

*RIOT*
NERF THE GUN! nerf the gun! nerf the gun!

 

[red7204]

I think that is a great suggestion to take away the damage bonus but leave the headshot bonus which is what the ss is all about. Take away the stun affect from the m14 and that sounds like enough. Leaving the mags at what they are is fine with me.

But I really like the idea of taking away the damage increase and the stun effect.

 

[Neo Mara]

Are you retarded? The M14 is the best all around gun in the game BAR NONE. Although it lacks the 1 shot take down power of the xbow, it has an insane amount of ammo, its semi auto, and its reload is lightening fast.

The M14 can take out ANY normal zed with a head shot or if not a few body shots. Additionally you can drop a fleshpound all by yourself on ANY level with 6 players inside of a clips worth of ammo (head shots of course). As it sits now the M14 can mop up trash AND take down big boys with the quickness.

If you don't know this about the M14 already you're obviously using it wrong.

** Let it be known that I do believe that M14 is way too powerful and it needs an "appropriate" nerf.

That's right and it only works if you've got the FP lined up on you hand he's charging for you. Try landing a mags worth of headshots if hes not. And if he's not comming for you and you can't kill him, guess what? He just killed your teammate. Worthless compared to the xbow for FPs.

 

[vealck]

M14 and the SCAR should swap laser sight and Aimpoint.

Yep, I think M14 shouldn't have laser sight. But collimator instead of it isn't a good idea either. Iron sights only will do.

M14 goes down to 8 mags.

Yeah, I thought of it too. But then, when there's about 20 players and over 600 zombies, you can run out of ammo for M14, handcannon and grenade launcher during one wave, even on normal. And I'm not spamming. Scrakes and fleshpounds take at best 1 mag in headshots (we're talking about 14k hp) to go down, while everything else is 1 shot 1 kill (note that I usually aim to get most kills on server).

M14 goes down to 4 mags but gets small base damage boost.

And this is just nuts.

 

[Shambler]

I actually like these ideas. The base damage increase for the sharpshooter atm is comparable to most other perks without taking into account the head-shot bonus. Though taking away the base damage would remove the incentive to use sharpshooter weapons at all...

As for the other ideas, the M14 nerf has been discussed to the point where I think most people on the forums just stopped caring. I for one, would be quite happy if they made the Xbow the tier 3, gave it a big ol' prise increase and axed the EBR all together.

 

[Neo Mara]

Yeah, I thought of it too. But then, when there's about 20 players and over 600 zombies, you can run out of ammo for M14, handcannon and grenade launcher during one wave, even on normal. And I'm not spamming. Scrakes and fleshpounds take at best 1 mag in headshots (we're talking about 14k hp) to go down, while everything else is 1 shot 1 kill (note that I usually aim to get most kills on server).

This game isnt made for 20 player servers. If you want to play on them fine, but its got nothing to do with balancing the regular game.

And this is just nuts.

That's about how much ammo the AA12 gets and the AA12 costs more. Its totally doable, you would just have use your LAR or Handcannons more. I can go a whole round of suicidal and not even come close to emptying my M14. Try that with the AA12, not going to happen. Support has to carry 2 shotguns just to not run out of ammo, and that's with killing multiple baddies per shot. What's the point of extra inventory room for support then? M14 has waaay to much ammo, its a fact.

I actually like these ideas. The base damage increase for the sharpshooter atm is comparable to most other perks without taking into account the head-shot bonus. Though taking away the base damage would remove the incentive to use sharpshooter weapons at all...

What I'm saying is, right now you have:

60% extra damage with Sharpshooter weapons
50% extra headshot damage

change it to:

110% extra headshot damage with Sharpshooter weapons

The 110% is not exact, but you would set it at what ever % did not change the total damage to headshots as it is currently set. Same amout of damage, you just have to get a headshot to get any bonus at all.

 

[vealck]

This game isnt made for 20 player servers.

And that's why? But yeah, for 6 player game 8 or even 6 mags limit is fine.

That's about how much ammo the AA12 gets and the AA12 costs more.

Yeah, but you can kill 3 zeds with one shell thanks to penetration. SS can't, so more ammo is understood.

Anyway, current ammo limit is ok for SS if we're talking about 24 player servers. We should think of nerf that wouldn't kill the fun on them. For example, removing laser sight from M14 and adding immense spread when firing from hip. We want to discourage spamming bullets in chests of specimen, not playing on non-standard servers.

 

[k_murdah]

All in all agree very much with the original poster. I'd rather have night vision on my scar than the laser sight, if I don't need to zoom I don't need to aim at all really I know where the center of my screen is fairly accurately. I'd rather option 2 just because option 3 actually may push the weapon into rarely used category. I think on suicidal even if every shot was a hs that might make your ammo very stretched when using the m14 on only the tougher mobs even.

Very solid supporter that SS was supposed to be a class focused almost entirely on HS, think the original poster has the right idea.

 

[Neo Mara]

All in all agree very much with the original poster. I'd rather have night vision on my scar than the laser sight.

This isn't really on topic but my thought on Commando is the commando should see an outline of all enemies, not just stalkers. Let him see outlines though the Demo's smoke and the FB's fire. It would really help put him up front where he belongs.


Oh and as far as ammo, Look at it like this. 9mm has 240 rounds, it can take out Clots, Gorefasts, Crawlers, Stalkers, and decap a Bloat, all of these in a single headshot from the 9mm. From there you can go with the Lever Action which is actually slightly more powerful than the M14 though slower to reload, 80 rounds there. Or you can go Handcannon for slightly less power, the top end of reaches the low end of M14 power, for 96 more rounds. So even at only 4 mags for the M14, the Sharpshooter has plenty of rounds.

1: 9mm, 240 rounds
2: Handcannon, 96 rounds OR Lever action 80 rounds
3: new M14 with slightly more dmg: 80 Rounds

Plenty of ammo to finish any round, even on 6-man suicidal as long as the Sharpshooter doesn't waste shots.

 

[9_6]

Gee, why switching the sights which would require re-modeling.

Just assign the m14 with full auto and no massive headshot bonus to the commando and the SCAR with semi-auto only and the headshot bonus to the SS.
It's even the same clipsize and the same caliber. Fixed.
The SCAR even has the better sight and the more badass firing sound of the 2 anyway (which communicates single, powerful shots) so it would actually feel right in the hand of a sniper while the more muffled firing sounds of the M14 actually suit a perk that focuses on stealth (you know, commando).

On top of that, raising the power and dropping the clips to 4 sounds alright even though it wouldn't make sense seeing how both shooters use the same ammunition type but who cares.
Everything that rewards precision and punishes spamming is welcome.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

YouTube - Killing Floor - Aim For The Head Mutator

this always looked interesting.....it's a mutator that was made a while back. can't seem to locate it in the forums but it's most likely buried in the modding forums somewhere.

 

[Neo Mara]

Mutator looks fun. I wonder if it'd work on current KF though?

I tried saving M14 for last while using 9mm and LAR/HC tonight on 6-man suicidal. 4 mags is probably a little low for the end rounds when youre playing a Long game but 5-6 would would be perfect for a dmg boosted M14.

 

[Neo Mara]

Gee, why switching the sights which would require re-modeling.

Just assign the m14 with full auto and no massive headshot bonus to the commando and the SCAR with semi-auto only and the headshot bonus to the SS.
It's even the same clipsize and the same caliber. Fixed.
The SCAR even has the better sight and the more badass firing sound of the 2 anyway (which communicates single, powerful shots) so it would actually feel right in the hand of a sniper while the more muffled firing sounds of the M14 actually suit a perk that focuses on stealth (you know, commando).

On top of that, raising the power and dropping the clips to 4 sounds alright even though it wouldn't make sense seeing how both shooters use the same ammunition type but who cares.
Everything that rewards precision and punishes spamming is welcome.

I guess it wouldn't matter which way you did it. It sure would be a lot easier on the dves that way. The only reason not to would be how the real life weapons match up, modern M14s are often accurized and SCARS are more of a grunt's weapon but all that doesn't really matter as far as the game goes I guess.



Thought of something else after more testing. 2 ways to make iron sights and taking aimed shots more viable to Sharpshooter.

1. Sharpshooter gets a faster sight picture perk. When you go to use the iron sights, its takes a bit of time. Not a lot but if you want to encourage the Sharpshooter to use sights don't penalize for using the irons.

2. Steady hand perk: Iron sights settle faster OR don't sway at all. If you use the irons sights there are two things that let you get back on your target faster. First, recoil. Sharpshooter has less recoil, even when using the irons. But the second thing that does NOT change is how the sights sway after a shot. Sights should settle faster for a sharpshooter or not sway at all besides recoil if you want to encourage using the irons as a Sharpshooter.

 

[ScarFace]

That's right and it only works if you've got the FP lined up on you hand he's charging for you. Try landing a mags worth of headshots if hes not. And if he's not comming for you and you can't kill him, guess what? He just killed your teammate. Worthless compared to the xbow for FPs.

1st of all you line him up prior to him raging...that is obvious and any player and his team worth his salt KNOWS this already.

2nd assuming you didn't line him up prior to rage it is ALOT easier to hit a charging FP with a semiauto weapon firing 20 shots than it is with 1 bolt. In fact a side head shot as the FP runs past you with the Xbow is infinitely harder to do than one with the m14. If you miss with the xbow as the FP FLYS by you your teammate is dead anyways. At least with the m14 you can spam body shots, thus increasing the damage you do prior to him getting to a teammate (another thing you cannot do with the xbow).

 

[Madhate969]

I really really like this idea of rebalancing. It is much better than the nerf talk that is normally going around. The idea to move all the bonuses to the headshot, will fix the dual HC spaming as well as the M14 spamming. I'm all for lowering the M14 ammo since I never use it.
As for switching the Scar and M14ERB, I do like the Scar sight better for sniping, but I don't like the laser sight for anyone really. It would be better for a commando, but not really too helpful I don't think

 

[[UIT] Akame]

If you are looking to reduce spamming, the 9mm is another offender. SS is the only class that get a damage buff for it but also get recoil and reload buffs

• +60% damage,
• -75% recoil
• 60% faster reload with precision weapons
• +50% headshot damage

At lv5 and 6 you spawn with two perk weapons.

 

[ScarFace]

If you are looking to reduce spamming, the 9mm is another offender. SS is the only class that get a damage buff for it but also get recoil and reload buffs

• +60% damage,
• -75% recoil
• 60% faster reload with precision weapons
• +50% headshot damage

At lv5 and 6 you spawn with two perk weapons.

Yea and take that a step further. I've NEVER EVER heard of sharpshooter being known for the ability to reload quickly. They are known for the shot placement/grouping/accuracy etc. So why they get bonuses on pistols which aren't even sharpie weapons and reload bonuses is beyond me. I've said it before and I'll say it again the commando should get the big reload bonus considering he's supposed to be the all around weapons expert.