Pistoleer Perk

[DocDave]

Dual wielding.
High damage, low ammo, zero accuracy (unless you know where the center of the screen is), (potentially) rapid fire stuff with not as much spread as shotguns.

Single pistol.
High damage, low ammo, precise, piercing (cept for 9mm) shots.

Rifle/assault ammo can do more damage than pistol ammo and can achieve much higher rates of fire than even triple+ wielded pistols. Likewise for single pistols, and a longer barrel will always provide better penetration and precision.

I'm not saying this idea might not just be fun, I mean, V for Vendetta and all, for whoever likes that sort of thing, but I'm just wondering what you would expect to get out of a pistol-based perk, from a realistic point of view.

He would basically be the guy who lines zeds up to take multiple of them down with 1 single shot which is, unlike shotguns, precise.

Like the crossbow?

 

[9_6]

Rifle/assault ammo can do more damage than pistol ammo and can achieve much higher rates of fire than even triple+ wielded pistols. Likewise for single pistols, and a longer barrel will always provide better piercing and precision.

I'm not saying this idea might not just be fun, I mean, V for Vendetta and all, for whoever likes that sort of thing, but I'm just wondering what you would expect to get out of a pistol-based perk, from a realistic point of view.

This is a B-movie in game-form. Screw realism, you know it would be awesome.

Like the crossbow?

A crossbow with a clip, no zoom, different damage and no obnoxiously high headshot multiplicators, yes.

 

[DocDave]

This is a B-movie in game-form. Screw realism, you know it would be awesome.

I don't really care either way, to be honest. There are a lot more pressing issues to be worked on, in my opinion, like fixing current perks before adding a perk which is (debatably) unrealistic and doesn't really do anything new for the team in terms of game dynamics. If you like pistols and piercing shots, go SS with a crossbow and dual handcannons.

I'm not saying it might not be "oooh cool." And if we absolutely had to have a new perk, I'm not sure what else is left. We've covered just about all the other weapon archetypes. Next will be the nerf dart archer, I suppose. Anyway, whatever, carry on...

 

[DocDave]

Alright, here's something... Pistols, unlike larger weapons, can be holstered and drawn very quickly. Not so important in this game, eh? Well, what if-

1. Pistoleer weapons were designed to give him a variety of damage types and modes, so it could quickly switch between piercing, scattering, rapid fire...

2. Look at my suggestion, zed-based balancing if you haven't yet... if damage type becomes more important, a perk that can switch quickly and easily between types would have good versatility, even if it doesn't bring the damage the other perks do. Ie bullets, bolts, shot. Perhaps Pistoleer should also get a bonus to grenades?

 

[9_6]

We've covered just about all the other weapon archetypes.

Exactly.
Whether or not adding yet another perk into the (not quite balanced already) lot is another question.
However, if it has to be a new perk, the only one this game has room for would be a perk dedicated to handguns imo.
Everything else (shotguns, explosives, rapid fire guns, long range precision guns, chainsawsnkatanas) already has its perk.

 

[Bio666]

What could you realistically do with pistols that you couldn't do much better with proper rifles?

There's a reason that cowboys won the west. Bows and arrows could only take you so far

 

[DocDave]

There's a reason that cowboys won the west. Bows and arrows could only take you so far

Uh. Thanks, John Wayne, but I don't think bows and arrows are rifles.

 

[Reise]

Rifle/assault ammo can do more damage than pistol ammo and can achieve much higher rates of fire than even triple+ wielded pistols. Likewise for single pistols, and a longer barrel will always provide better penetration and precision.

Eh... I could give you a few examples of pistols with considerable rates of fire. As for damage? In the gun world that's a very relative term. The way you talk though, you seem as if you should know that.

I'm just wondering what you would expect to get out of a pistol-based perk.

A pistol-based perk. When I started the thread I didn't care what the perk's potential unique qualities would be because I figured having the perk in the first place was unique enough. It would make using pistols viable. It would make dual wielding them effective. It would give people another bit of variety.

doesn't really do anything new for the team in terms of game dynamics.

How fortunate we are to have a thread for brainstorming such things!

As I said, melee weapons can cause more grievous wounds without using ammo. That's what they do better. An axe to the chest? Chainsaw to the gut?

Realistically, people wouldn't get within 50 feet of a zed, let alone chance getting a goddamn chainsaw or axe stuck in his guts.

Large caliber pistols at their effective ranges would absolutely annihilate a body's insides from a safe distance. Don't talk about realism when you have no concept of it in the first place.

What would it bring to the game? See my earlier posts in this thread for your answer to that exact question.

If your opposition to the pistol perk idea amounts to nothing more than "Well I don't think it's good enough" then please, know that I accept that. Just don't keep coming back saying the same thing as if I can form some kind of response to it. Add to the refinement of the idea by either bringing in your own suggestions, or pointing out specific negative game-related issues.

Whether you believe it's "realistic" or "worth implementing" or not, is completely irrelevant. I can't address subjective opinions.

 

[DocDave]

Large caliber pistols at their effective ranges would absolutely annihilate a body's insides from a safe distance. Don't talk about realism when you have no concept of it in the first place.

Heh, a bit arrogant, aren't we. The last time I looked into this sort of thing, hospital mortality rates for pistol wounds was roughly equal to that for comparably located knife wounds, within a few percent. Death due to haemorrhaging before EMT arrival was noticably higher with knife injuries. And anything bigger than a knife? Go figure what happens to the numbers.

As far as potential goes, you can fire stock weapons from the shoulder that would injure your wrist.

What would it bring to the game? See my earlier posts in this thread for your answer to that exact question.

Alright...

bloat resistance
movement speed
faster reload
larger mags
less recoil
penetration

With "bring to the game," I meant "things other perks haven't already brought to the game." What makes it unique in terms of game play? What could I do with this perk that I can't do with other perks already? Yes, "use a pistol as a primary weapon" might be good enough for you and a few others, but not everyone has a pistol fetish.

Add to the refinement of the idea by either bringing in your own suggestions, or pointing out specific negative game-related issues.

It's not my idea (and FWIW I did point out one good point of pistols)... you sell me on why this is any different than a SS/Support clone with absolutely nothing new added other than a few skins for pistols that can magically keep up with M14s, AAs etc.

 

[brphoenix]

Heh, a bit arrogant, aren't we. The last time I looked into this sort of thing, hospital mortality rates for pistol wounds was roughly equal to that for comparably located knife wounds, within a few percent. Death due to haemorrhaging before EMT arrival was noticably higher with knife injuries. And anything bigger than a knife? Go figure what happens to the numbers.

That's because no one that was shot by a decent handgun even makes it to the hospital. Can you imagine the damage a revolver does to one's body?

With "bring to the game," I meant "things other perks haven't already brought to the game." What makes it unique in terms of game play? What could I do with this perk that I can't do with other perks already? Yes, "use a pistol as a primary weapon" might be good enough for you and a few others, but not everyone has a pistol fetish.

Apparently you missed the "higher chance to trigger ZED-time", "higher damage during ZED-time", and the whole "siren resistance" part. Those are pretty unique.

 

[DocDave]

Well, believe it or not, I don't care, but knife wounds once delivered are deadly as pistol wounds and more, despite all the Dirty Harry in Hollywood. I've seen ballistic trauma. All it takes for exsanguination, the most common cause of death from either pistols or knives, is a utility knife.

Semi-related fact, by the way, nearly one in ten gunshot suicides involve more than one shot, with some documented cases involving as many as six shots.

Perks already in the game have "more zed time," "damage resistance" and every perk that can headshot does "more damage during zed time."

I've been trying to come up with a unique advantage of pistols. So far, speed of drawing and holstering is still the only thing I can come up with, but like I wrote earlier, that would only matter if it were important to switch weapons quickly.

Again, maybe if the pistols given the Pistoleer had a better range of "utility," so that to get the most out of the new pistols, you would really need the perk to switch quickly depending on the situation.

That having been said, I'm thinking dual wielded shotgun pistols - Public Defender or something similar as one option, perhaps a pistol crossbow - no penetration, some headshot bonus, but less... obviously the dual handcannons with penetration... and the dual 9s. Probably would want to key the pistol xbow and dual Defenders to primary and special.

I still don't think it's really worthwhile, but that's the best I can think of right now. It would give it a team role - jack of all trades to stop up gaps momentarily. "+x% damage to blah, +y% resistance to bleh," that's just details. Of course, if the Pistoleer can do a little of everything, he won't be that good at anything.

 

[MasterCheff]

well thats like saying he should be able to dual wield everything which would be hilarious dual wielding flamethrowers xD

 

[DocDave]

well thats like saying he should be able to dual wield everything which would be hilarious dual wielding flamethrowers xD

Nah, no infringing on the sacred territory of Firebug, Zerker or Medic.

 

[brphoenix]

Perks already in the game have "more zed time," "damage resistance" and every perk that can headshot does "more damage during zed time."

Well... you mixed "higher chance to trigger ZED-time" with "ZED-time extension". One lets you have more ZED-times, the other longer ZED-times. See the difference now?

There's only one type of damage resistance regarding ZEDs, which is Bloat bile resistance. Adding Siren scream resistance, and possibly no screen flicker while "hearing" a siren's scream will make a difference.

And, while what you said is true - during ZED-time all perks deal "extra" damage - , the pistoleer would have a literal bonus to damage, stacking with his previous bonuses. All perks deal the same damage inside and outside ZED-time, but the pistoleer would deal more damage during ZED-time.

 

[Foxyfired]

why not a gun like this ^^

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyHeFatu-n4&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Metal storm - Future weapons[/URL]

 

[Bio666]

^^^^

That gun is bs.

How can it counter rain? Even water gun can win it.

 

[Benjamin]

What does Commando bring other than being able to see the occasional Stalker?

What does Firebug bring in its current state?

So your argument for another potentially useless perk is "other perks are useless so why not add more?" Of course, I don't think commando and firebug are entirely useless... it's just that their areas seem to overlap with other perks.

I'm only arguing against the idea presented in its current state because I don't want the perks selection to get diluted with those that seem 'cool' but don't really offer much for gameplay. And aside from this, I've always seen the pistols in this game as secondary weapons. I mean, why would you use any kind of pistol when you can use an AK47 or a SCAR? Or an EBR, etc.

Of course, if there's something that would make this perk fun to use, I'd be all for it. I don't really care if a perk isn't so useful to the team if it's enjoyable to use.

 

[MasterCheff]

you guys would not believe how many servers i went through just to find one that players would let me get all the stalkers

 

[Reise]

you sell me on why this is any different than a SS/Support clone with absolutely nothing new added other than a few skins for pistols that can magically keep up with M14s, AAs etc.

It goes without saying that increased damage by whatever percentage necessary will make pistols keep up with everything else.

I made this thread to sell the idea of the perk itself, nothing more. If you feel it needs to have something more in order to be worth it to you, there have been plenty of posts attempting to come up with something.

So your argument for another potentially useless perk is "other perks are useless so why not add more?"

Who said they're useless?

What if I happen to enjoy playing those perks regardless of other peoples' strange definition of effectiveness?

I just don't see how it matters in a co-op game like this. The whole idea of balance everyone seems to hang on to is only really relevant in a competitive game. Sure, some perks are more effective than others. So what? It's not like the world ends if you play the perk you like to play and the team happens to bite the dust repeatedly. You don't really get anything for winning in KF.

 

[Benjamin]

What if I happen to enjoy playing those perks regardless of other peoples' strange definition of effectiveness?

Re-read what I said:

I don't really care if a perk isn't so useful to the team if it's enjoyable to use.