Patch/Game 2 Movement

[[Mad_Murdock]]

Now the reason this involves whatever is next for TWI is because i'm 99% sure this cannot be done on Unreal 2.

Anyways, i remember a while ago there was a post somewhere that suggested we take the cover movement a la Gears of War, now before the flamewar begins, hear me out.

I am not suggesting that we nerf all of our weapons, and turn the gameplay into the same kind of psychadelic orgy that gears is.

Neither am i suggesting 3rd person view or the ability to blindly fire your automatic weapons around a door with one hand.

What I am saying is that perhaps we would be able to incorporate the same kind of cover ability they use in that game, not the exact same, but similar, i.e. you would be able to crouch down behind barrels and around doorways.

The added feature i'm thinking of is the first person view, so technically your character is leaning around a doorway to aim his weapon, but you dont see this, you only see the first person view come around the door along with your character, you know, immersion.

But oh well, this is mostly just a rant off the top of my head but maybe theres some good in it.

Hell, i dont even play gears of war.

*edit* Can someone put this in the Suggestions forum, i messed up.

 

[EvilHobo]

I guess I'll post here and let the moderators sort it out when they get to it...

Anyway, I personally think this would be pretty cool, while keeping it in first person of course. Something like putting your back against a wall and pulling your weapon to your chest and then either peeking around or firing around the corner? It would also make for some interesting grenade work too, I would think.

 

[Murphy]

I didn't quite get it. Haven't played nor seen Gears of War yet. Could someone explain to me what this is all about, or maybe post a link to a youtube video that shows what you mean?

 

[lu31605]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tlagQ4KW5t4

Just watch through it. It does have a pretty cool cover system.

 

[Murphy]

Thanks man. I only watched it up to the 3 minute mark but what I saw was awesome! I can't really see it work in a first person shooter though. In RO you can't just be sucked towards cover by the press of a button and then lean around it completely to fire madly at someone and then pop back under cover. It looks awesome in Gears and it looks badass in movies, but that's not how I would want to play RO.
E.g. if I want to lean around a corner, I lean first and then I move slowly towards the edge, revealing only what has to be revealed so I can see enough or so I can shoot. I don't want to move towards the edge while being magnetically drawn to the wall, automatically stopping at the edge and with a press of a button I could watch around it - revealing way too much of myself.
It works in Gears (and Splinter Cell! Seems to be pretty much the same deal as in Splinter Cell with a few new mechanics such as the blind shooting, and that you can not only shoot around cover but also over it. Oh, and "Everything or Nothing" has a similar way of dealing with cover, only the aiming is really different) because those are third person shooters. You already see around the edge before you are even there. So you already know where you are going to shoot, so you just need to pop out - shoot - and pop back in fast. Nothing else really matters.
In RO this doesn't really work. It would work only for those occasions where you want to be a pop up rifleman, which already works a tad too good as it is, or if you want to do the same sideways. How often is that? Not too often.
Also, Gears' levels are constructed around that feature. Cover has the appropriate height and shape. Imagine doing the same behind a destroyed a truck on one of RO's maps. You would basically constantly be revealing too much of yourself if you would want to use that. OR if you if you are prone behind a small hill, just enough to cover you from an mg and you slowly crawl to the top hoping to be able to see just enough so you can squeeze off a few shots.
Gears doesn't even have a prone position I assume. Because it doesn't need one. Enemy behaviour and level design are made to fit with the cover mechanics and that's why it works so well. In RO neither is the case.
For RO a movement system like that would be a waste because it would only be usefull in very rare occasions (where it would admittedly rock, but the occasions are too rare and even then the current system is enough to pull them off just as efficiently albeit with less style).

Now, mantling is another story. The current jump we have is a joke. Thats one advanced movement feature that has to be in RO2, but Gears' cover system, not so much.

 

[Karabiner98k]

Putting your back to the cover isn't the best way to take cover anyway, you can only shoot backwards. If I remember correctly, from a British Army handbook and the US IMTs (Individual Movement Techniques) it's preferable to run, crouch or dive to the cover forwards so that you can lean round the sides (the best way to shoot round cover) or crouch and shoot over the top. Shooting over the top of the cover (very hard with your back to the cover unless you turn round and face the front, thus confirming the above) and leaning round the side (why make this a contortionist act when it needn't be one) are both impaired when you put your back to the cover.
I don't see any advantages in a system like this (especially in a "realistic" game like RO:Ost) - the only thing you could really do would be to shoot backwards and reload, and if you're doing that in RO you might as well crouch, or go prone, and face backwards. This may look cool in GoW but in Real Life (TM) I'd much rather face forwards when behind cover.

 

[[Mad_Murdock]]

Hmm, well I see where you're going with that, and admittedly i played Gears once......for 20 minutes. SO i'm no expert.

But the mantling thing is crucial.

 

[fOgGy]

Killzone 2 is another good example of featuring a FPS cover system -

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/24242.html

 

[Xendance]

Like you would be able to blindfire around corners in first person view (+ other things)? Would be a neat addition.

 

[Karabiner98k]

That's a bad idea too, there might be 3 friendlies in there, I'm sure tks would go up with all the people using the new, cool feature.

 

[KrazyKraut]

From what I have seen so far from UE3 games (MoHA, R6:Vegas, BioShock) I wouldn't be surprised if TWI next game is very different from RO. The engine seems to be very good with short to medium viewdistances, detailed indoor scenarios and close combat fights... not exactly what RO is about, but more like a SWAT-type of game maybe.

An engine like the CRYEngine2 would offer much more features out of the box for an "RO2"-type of game (long viewdistances and lush environments, destructable buildings, locational vehicle damage...).

 

[Xendance]

That's a bad idea too, there might be 3 friendlies in there, I'm sure tks would go up with all the people using the new, cool feature.

Oh, well then they must remove nades too. You can teamkill with them. Oh and rifles too!

 

[Karabiner98k]

I can't see blind firing being at all usefull. Why not just look over/to the side of the cover first? That would be much more effective. With nades it is easy to avoid tks, just don't randomly chuck the nade. We all know that randomly chucking a nade is bad, I think that blind firing would be just as bad.

 

[SgtH3nry3]

From what I have seen so far from UE3 games (MoHA, R6:Vegas, BioShock) I wouldn't be surprised if TWI next game is very different from RO. The engine seems to be very good with short to medium viewdistances, detailed indoor scenarios and close combat fights... not exactly what RO is about, but more like a SWAT-type of game maybe.

An engine like the CRYEngine2 would offer much more features out of the box for an "RO2"-type of game (long viewdistances and lush environments, destructable buildings, locational vehicle damage...).

Who says UE3 is only for detailed indoro scenarios?

The game it was originally built for, Unreal Tournament 3, isn't actually a game with short viewdistances and detailed indoor scenarios.

Obviously, detail will be decreased as viewdistance increases but RO isn't a graphics game you know...

 

[fOgGy]

Would anyone here agree if TW should rather make another RO than doing something different or unique ?

 

[Reise]

I've still got my fingers crossed for a WW1 shooter.