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Modern day pics of old battlefields

hawco

Active member
Jul 12, 2006
35
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Does anyone have any pics of how some of the old battlefields look today?
Just wondering if there's still old hilks lying around or are the old sites now farmers fields etc, you know sites like Kursk and the Seelow hieghts, Narwa.
Cheers
Hawco
 
There was one site, done by a very pretty amateur archaeologist in the Ukraine. She went and did photography at some of the old battle sites near Kiev. Can't remember what her site was called, though ... damn.

It was really amazing. She had pictures of the artifacts as she'd find them. Sometimes including human remains. The artifacts covered everything from the pre-Mongol period all the way up through to now.
 
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There was one site, done by a very pretty amateur archaeologist in the Ukraine. She went and did photography at some of the old battle sites near Kiev. Can't remember what her site was called, though ... damn.

It was really amazing. She had pictures of the artifacts as she'd find them. Sometimes including human remains. The artifacts covered everything from the pre-Mongol period all the way up through to now.
You just had to tease didn't you?
Thanks anyway, just trying to do some research
Thanks again sir!
Hawco
 
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There was one site, done by a very pretty amateur archaeologist in the Ukraine. She went and did photography at some of the old battle sites near Kiev. Can't remember what her site was called, though ... damn.

It was really amazing. She had pictures of the artifacts as she'd find them. Sometimes including human remains. The artifacts covered everything from the pre-Mongol period all the way up through to now.

The Serpent's Wall
 
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THANK YOU! I kept trying to google 'Dragon's Wall,' and knew it wasn't right.


Now I've got the bookmark again. :D


There's something about the way she writes that really grabs at me. There's a mixture of sadness and fierce pride, all put together with a sense of humor ... I love reading this stuff, and looking at the pictures.
 
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Does anyone have any pics of how some of the old battlefields look today?

I have some photos of foxholes in a wood near Bastogne, a twon in the Ardennes in Belgium:

http://www.rde-clan.net/smf/index.php?topic=404.msg2702#msg2702

It's opposite of a town called Foy. Maybe you remember this battle from the TV series "Band of Brothers".

Unfortunately, there are no burnt out tanks any more... but a few surviving tanks are on display in the towns around there:

http://www.rde-clan.net/smf/index.php?topic=376.msg2340#msg2340
 
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Thanks for those links guys, they are of real interest, when you see these pics, it really hits home the sheer scale of the war doesn't it?
Hard to belive that Europe was ablaze for all those years.
That truely was a collosal clash between the Soviets and the Germans, Do you think the Germans would have won if there was Just the one front? And a quick follow up to that, Were the Russians running out of manpower by the wars end? I often wonder just how close the Soviets came to getting low on enough soldiers etc.
 
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Thanks for those links guys, they are of real interest, when you see these pics, it really hits home the sheer scale of the war doesn't it?
Hard to belive that Europe was ablaze for all those years.
That truely was a collosal clash between the Soviets and the Germans, Do you think the Germans would have won if there was Just the one front? And a quick follow up to that, Were the Russians running out of manpower by the wars end? I often wonder just how close the Soviets came to getting low on enough soldiers etc.


The Soviets weren't even close to running out of manpower. What they were low on was coordination and the capability for low-level decision making and planning. Germany -could- have beaten the Soviets, yes. There were a few major mistakes that they made on the Eastern Front, and elsewhere, that sealed Germany's fate. Hitler was his own worst enemy ...

1. Citadel was launched too late. By waiting for significant numbers of Panthers to arrive, the Soviets were able to prepare much more thoroughly. This was a pretty late-stage event, though. By this point in the game there wasn't much that they could have done to keep from losing.

2. The Germans were greeted as liberators through much of the conquered Soviet territories. They squandered this, by treating the populace like ****, to the point where the Soviets were the lesser of two evils.

3. When the invasion of the Soviet Union started, there were too many goals. There should have been only one goal: Moscow. Stalin's purges had removed virtually all capacity for independent thought in the Red Army, and had the central command structure in Moscow been decapitated, there would have been very difficult - if not completely impossible - for the Soviets to recover.

4. Not conquering Malta. By leaving Malta in British hands, the resupply of British forces in North Africa was never able to be cut off, while British air and naval units based in Malta were able to operate against German supply lines.

5. Making friends with Japan. Yes, Japan tied up a lot of Britain's assets, but it also got the US into the war. If US involvement could have been prevented, or even delayed until late '42/early '43, combined with #4 (taking out Malta), it's unlikely that Operation Torch could have been successfully pulled off, and without North Africa as a jumping-off point, no campaign in Italy would have been possible, and it would not have been necessary to pull forces away from the Eastern Front to fight in Italy.


There's plenty more stuff that could have been done differently ... but what it all boils down to is that, yes, it would have been entirely possible for Germany to win the war, hands down. It might even have been possible if they were fighting only on two fronts - Italy / East Front or France / East Front. The combination of all three, however, was just a killer.
 
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The Soviets weren't even close to running out of manpower. What they were low on was coordination and the capability for low-level decision making and planning. Germany -could- have beaten the Soviets, yes. There were a few major mistakes that they made on the Eastern Front, and elsewhere, that sealed Germany's fate. Hitler was his own worst enemy ...

1. Citadel was launched too late. By waiting for significant numbers of Panthers to arrive, the Soviets were able to prepare much more thoroughly. This was a pretty late-stage event, though. By this point in the game there wasn't much that they could have done to keep from losing.

2. The Germans were greeted as liberators through much of the conquered Soviet territories. They squandered this, by treating the populace like ****, to the point where the Soviets were the lesser of two evils.

3. When the invasion of the Soviet Union started, there were too many goals. There should have been only one goal: Moscow. Stalin's purges had removed virtually all capacity for independent thought in the Red Army, and had the central command structure in Moscow been decapitated, there would have been very difficult - if not completely impossible - for the Soviets to recover.

4. Not conquering Malta. By leaving Malta in British hands, the resupply of British forces in North Africa was never able to be cut off, while British air and naval units based in Malta were able to operate against German supply lines.

5. Making friends with Japan. Yes, Japan tied up a lot of Britain's assets, but it also got the US into the war. If US involvement could have been prevented, or even delayed until late '42/early '43, combined with #4 (taking out Malta), it's unlikely that Operation Torch could have been successfully pulled off, and without North Africa as a jumping-off point, no campaign in Italy would have been possible, and it would not have been necessary to pull forces away from the Eastern Front to fight in Italy.


There's plenty more stuff that could have been done differently ... but what it all boils down to is that, yes, it would have been entirely possible for Germany to win the war, hands down. It might even have been possible if they were fighting only on two fronts - Italy / East Front or France / East Front. The combination of all three, however, was just a killer.
We should have got another thread going for this as this is very Interesting.
In your opinion, If the Germans hadn't launched Citadel, what could they have done? consolidated their lines etc? Citadel was 1943 right? By 1943, did the Germans still have the capability to crush the soviets? Or was the war in the East won by then?
 
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We should have got another thread going for this as this is very Interesting.
In your opinion, If the Germans hadn't launched Citadel, what could they have done? consolidated their lines etc? Citadel was 1943 right? By 1943, did the Germans still have the capability to crush the soviets? Or was the war in the East won by then?


I don't know that there was any way to win by -not- making the summer '43 attack.

I -do- feel sure that giving the Soviets the two extra months to prepare sealed their doom, though. The Soviets had plenty of intelligence suggesting that the attack was coming at Kursk. If the attack had come as scheduled in May, they could not have concentrated their forces to nearly the same extent. With those 2 extra months to run wild and defeat the Soviets units in detail, a decision in July to pull the SS-Panzerkorps and send it to Sicily would not have made a difference in the east, but it could possibly have helped out in Sicily. But, then again, maybe it wouldn't have.

If they had not launched Citadel at all ... I dunno. Zhukov finally had the confidence of Stalin, and he had, what, a million and a half men and 4000 tanks or so? If he'd had all that power concentrated in one place with no Germans coming at him and Hitler decided against Citadel ... that would have been one hell of a juggernaut. They might have been able to roll up to Berlin by the end of '44, maybe sooner. Who knows?
 
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The Soviets weren't even close to running out of manpower. What they were low on was coordination and the capability for low-level decision making and planning. Germany -could- have beaten the Soviets, yes. There were a few major mistakes that they made on the Eastern Front, and elsewhere, that sealed Germany's fate. Hitler was his own worst enemy ...

1. Citadel was launched too late. By waiting for significant numbers of Panthers to arrive, the Soviets were able to prepare much more thoroughly. This was a pretty late-stage event, though. By this point in the game there wasn't much that they could have done to keep from losing.

2. The Germans were greeted as liberators through much of the conquered Soviet territories. They squandered this, by treating the populace like ****, to the point where the Soviets were the lesser of two evils.

3. When the invasion of the Soviet Union started, there were too many goals. There should have been only one goal: Moscow. Stalin's purges had removed virtually all capacity for independent thought in the Red Army, and had the central command structure in Moscow been decapitated, there would have been very difficult - if not completely impossible - for the Soviets to recover.

4. Not conquering Malta. By leaving Malta in British hands, the resupply of British forces in North Africa was never able to be cut off, while British air and naval units based in Malta were able to operate against German supply lines.

5. Making friends with Japan. Yes, Japan tied up a lot of Britain's assets, but it also got the US into the war. If US involvement could have been prevented, or even delayed until late '42/early '43, combined with #4 (taking out Malta), it's unlikely that Operation Torch could have been successfully pulled off, and without North Africa as a jumping-off point, no campaign in Italy would have been possible, and it would not have been necessary to pull forces away from the Eastern Front to fight in Italy.


There's plenty more stuff that could have been done differently ... but what it all boils down to is that, yes, it would have been entirely possible for Germany to win the war, hands down. It might even have been possible if they were fighting only on two fronts - Italy / East Front or France / East Front. The combination of all three, however, was just a killer.

Funny, germans being treated as liberators. That's the worst I've ever heard come out of anyones mouth. If german were such liberators, how did 15 million soviet civillian murders come into the picture? During the war, civillians consisted of children, women, and the elderly men and women. I cannot imagine how they would be treated as liberators if the germans managed to murder so many civillians.
 
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Funny, germans being treated as liberators. That's the worst I've ever heard come out of anyones mouth. If german were such liberators, how did 15 million soviet civillian murders come into the picture? During the war, civillians consisted of children, women, and the elderly men and women. I cannot imagine how they would be treated as liberators if the germans managed to murder so many civillians.


mmm-hm.

So, you read this part:

Pete said:
2. The Germans were greeted as liberators through much of the conquered Soviet territories.


But apparently at that point your brain went into emergency shut-down mode and you missed the very next sentence:

Pete said:
They squandered this, by treating the populace like ****, to the point where the Soviets were the lesser of two evils.
 
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