Beta Map RO-HubeBreakout_B2
- Thread starter ViViD
- Start date
I would have to research further all the Soviet armor employed, but realized the time frame (44' - 45') was not what was being ask for in the post. Don't sell your self short, I have seen/played your maps! They speak for themselves.
I understand this battle/map would be "epic" and I also would like to see it receive the proper attention to details in regards to game-play and historical facts and backdrop. You would definitely have to have your heart as well of plenty of time to invest into a map such as this to do it justice imo, but I believe you could more than do it and do it well ViViD.
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OK, finally got a chance to play a few rounds.
Overall, I do like the look of the map. I haven't explored it fully, but it is going in the right direction
I played on the Russian side, server was about half full. Because of that this is no indication on gameplay, but the Russians generally got slaughtered.
- The first objective was basically capped before I could even get there to defend it (Church?), then being on foot, I was chasing after the tanks and halftracks as they rolled by me.
- Towards the end by the rail line. The Russian spawn seemed a bit awkward off to the side. It seemed that it was taking longer for the Russians to get in position to defend (up by the 2 AT Guns) than the Germans were getting to while attacking. That is most of the time. I did manage to get their a couple of times in a UC.
- Same spawn area, as the Russians were spawning, some Germans were on the hill overlooking it (50-60 meters away?). Don't know if they killed any Russians because of any spawn protection, but it was really awkward spawning so close in full view of the Germans like that.
- When all but the last objective was taken, I found as a Russian, I had to try and run like mad to get to the bridge to try to defend it. Both times I failed to even getting within view distance of the bridge as again, the Germans got there first.
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Overall impression: Map looks nice. I definately need to play it more, but constantly racing to the objectives to defend them was a pain. At this point with my few times playing it, fixing that would be the biggest thing. As far as the Germans, I only played them on the first beta, so I can't comment.
Overall, I do like the look of the map. I haven't explored it fully, but it is going in the right direction
I played on the Russian side, server was about half full. Because of that this is no indication on gameplay, but the Russians generally got slaughtered.
- The first objective was basically capped before I could even get there to defend it (Church?), then being on foot, I was chasing after the tanks and halftracks as they rolled by me.
- Towards the end by the rail line. The Russian spawn seemed a bit awkward off to the side. It seemed that it was taking longer for the Russians to get in position to defend (up by the 2 AT Guns) than the Germans were getting to while attacking. That is most of the time. I did manage to get their a couple of times in a UC.
- Same spawn area, as the Russians were spawning, some Germans were on the hill overlooking it (50-60 meters away?). Don't know if they killed any Russians because of any spawn protection, but it was really awkward spawning so close in full view of the Germans like that.
- When all but the last objective was taken, I found as a Russian, I had to try and run like mad to get to the bridge to try to defend it. Both times I failed to even getting within view distance of the bridge as again, the Germans got there first.
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Overall impression: Map looks nice. I definately need to play it more, but constantly racing to the objectives to defend them was a pain. At this point with my few times playing it, fixing that would be the biggest thing. As far as the Germans, I only played them on the first beta, so I can't comment.
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Mr Moe,
First, thanks for checking out our house....you're always welcome!
Secondly, and perhaps a full server would be a bit different, but indeed the Russians need a quicker way to get forward in this map. I was on the German side, and we actually pushed the Russians back INTO their spawn. I switched sides the round after you left, and I also found myself literally running after German APC's and tanks with satchel charges, as they passed me. I agree that the map's textures and details are well done, and the map looks good
First, thanks for checking out our house....you're always welcome!
Secondly, and perhaps a full server would be a bit different, but indeed the Russians need a quicker way to get forward in this map. I was on the German side, and we actually pushed the Russians back INTO their spawn. I switched sides the round after you left, and I also found myself literally running after German APC's and tanks with satchel charges, as they passed me. I agree that the map's textures and details are well done, and the map looks good
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I do find that Allies are pressed into running to the final objectives, and will see what I can do to fix it, though in creating the map we wanted this. The Rail and the bridge are objectives that are for show then any real defense. I hate seeing maps were as you get each objective they get harder and harder, so in this map the Pillbox and Farmhouse is were the hard yaker is and the last to objectives are to simulate a quick breakthrough. That is not to say I have not seen some great fights over the rail, but if the Germans get that far they deserve to win.
One way to counter this and also defend the Farmhouse at the same time is when you still have the Farmhouse put men in positon on the 2 AT guns and a sapper on the far right in the little gully to counter a PIV trying to out flank the AT guns. So once the Germans cap the Farmhouse there is already resistance at the rail and it gives time for Allied reinforcments. Also if you move the T-34 behind the rail the main body is protected. Now when the Germans breakthrough this no force on earth can prevent them from capping the bridge, unless the Germans are silly and Allies experts at using rifles to take out tanks. I have seen one crafty idea which I would give an A for effort which involved moving the 2 UC's to block the bridge then moving the t-34 in between them.
This gives more reason to fight harder over Mortar, Pillbox and Farmhouse. The first 2 objectives should hold the Germans up enough so the Allies can get there act together and man the AT guns and prepare a proper defense.
Will talk it over with Vivid nother the less and see what we can work out.
Thanks Mr Moe and airborne for your constructive feedback.
Luther
One way to counter this and also defend the Farmhouse at the same time is when you still have the Farmhouse put men in positon on the 2 AT guns and a sapper on the far right in the little gully to counter a PIV trying to out flank the AT guns. So once the Germans cap the Farmhouse there is already resistance at the rail and it gives time for Allied reinforcments. Also if you move the T-34 behind the rail the main body is protected. Now when the Germans breakthrough this no force on earth can prevent them from capping the bridge, unless the Germans are silly and Allies experts at using rifles to take out tanks. I have seen one crafty idea which I would give an A for effort which involved moving the 2 UC's to block the bridge then moving the t-34 in between them.
This gives more reason to fight harder over Mortar, Pillbox and Farmhouse. The first 2 objectives should hold the Germans up enough so the Allies can get there act together and man the AT guns and prepare a proper defense.
Will talk it over with Vivid nother the less and see what we can work out.
Thanks Mr Moe and airborne for your constructive feedback.
Luther
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OK, finally got a chance to play a few rounds.
Overall, I do like the look of the map. I haven't explored it fully, but it is going in the right direction
I played on the Russian side, server was about half full. Because of that this is no indication on gameplay, but the Russians generally got slaughtered.
- The first objective was basically capped before I could even get there to defend it (Church?), then being on foot, I was chasing after the tanks and halftracks as they rolled by me.
- Towards the end by the rail line. The Russian spawn seemed a bit awkward off to the side. It seemed that it was taking longer for the Russians to get in position to defend (up by the 2 AT Guns) than the Germans were getting to while attacking. That is most of the time. I did manage to get their a couple of times in a UC.
- Same spawn area, as the Russians were spawning, some Germans were on the hill overlooking it (50-60 meters away?). Don't know if they killed any Russians because of any spawn protection, but it was really awkward spawning so close in full view of the Germans like that.
- When all but the last objective was taken, I found as a Russian, I had to try and run like mad to get to the bridge to try to defend it. Both times I failed to even getting within view distance of the bridge as again, the Germans got there first.
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Overall impression: Map looks nice. I definately need to play it more, but constantly racing to the objectives to defend them was a pain. At this point with my few times playing it, fixing that would be the biggest thing. As far as the Germans, I only played them on the first beta, so I can't comment.
Thanks for all your comments
1. Trying to make the church a non objective for a timed spawn for some reason I spent 4 hours to replicate what I did in kuzernki but for some reason the spawn zones would not reconize being off. I will keep trying on this one but it may be due to the number of spawns and objective that playing around with it.
2. On a full server this is not as much as a problem, as there is always people moving forward or backwards in a cap. I realise with a half server this can be a problem. Also having good tankers can make or break a side, did you play b2 with the fact there is two soviet tanks. Two soviet tanks can hold the farm off long enough for the troops to rally in time. Also I created on purpose the fact that the last 3 spawns are hard for the russians once the breakthough at the trenches have been made, then it will always be a struggle I get increasing dissatified with the fact the attack side has it harder each spawn they get close to the end. I feel for realism sake you battle it out hard for the middle and then its becomes hard for the defender.
Now to even this out I could reduce the time, to bring it more in line so the germans have to rush.
3. Which spawn was that? and version B2 I increased the mine zones around the spawns
4. Last bridge is really a non event for the russians and it suppose to be it a moment of realisation that there is nothing you can do now they have broken through. Although I and a few mates manage to hold the last objective for a minute, holding it more then that is impossible. Again it brings it back to point one, and what we taken as standard how objectives are suppose to be made, which I don't want to conform to the norm here. Perhaps I can detailed these out in the side picks to help new players understand some how.
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Definately will move the russian inf closer to the action around the trench, to make it hard for the germans to assault. As for the side spawn I have a look perhaps making a easier path for the UC to the house may help.
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Ok oneshot, put together a battle and the research that support it and I will review it and see how long it will take, to complete.
Just PM me, the kharkov battles were intense, and probably should be mapped. But definately for me it has to be historic in all details.
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You got it, I'll PM you with what I have so you can look it over and see what you think? This way I won't keep clogging up this threads real intent and purpose - RO-Hubes Breakout Beta 2. I agree at least one these battles should be mapped. My data/research collecting is strictly on the 3rd battle of Kharkov, would you still be interested? We are talking about a urban armor battle in a war torn city, house to house, block to block, street to street. I guess I am what they refer to here as a "history zealot" so on that aspect we again are in agreement.
RO-Hubes Breakout is looking good and thanks again for your willingness to accept players input. Are you anticipating releasing another Beta of the map?
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One Beta more with slight modifications and the camo halftrack and water cube mods.
3rd Battle is one I be most interested in anyway, but I have no detail maps of the city, town or surrounding areas to isolate interesting battles.
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It doesn't look like I will get the temp spawn there is an issue somewhere in the map, where it will not allow it, I copied and pasted all the spawns into another map and timed spawn worked fine no issues. the issue for some reason is bInitallySpawn is not working at all all the spawns are reacting as true even if false
Things tried;
Recreated the Rolevelinfo
Recreated all playerstarts, Rospawns, and objective actors
Copy and paste whole map into a new file
Copy and pasted working temp spawn into map
What ever the issue is I cannot find it other then recreating the whole map again, which I am not prepared to do. if anyone wants to have a challenge and look at it please be my guest.
3rd Battle is one I be most interested in anyway, but I have no detail maps of the city, town or surrounding areas to isolate interesting battles.
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It doesn't look like I will get the temp spawn there is an issue somewhere in the map, where it will not allow it, I copied and pasted all the spawns into another map and timed spawn worked fine no issues. the issue for some reason is bInitallySpawn is not working at all all the spawns are reacting as true even if false
Things tried;
Recreated the Rolevelinfo
Recreated all playerstarts, Rospawns, and objective actors
Copy and paste whole map into a new file
Copy and pasted working temp spawn into map
What ever the issue is I cannot find it other then recreating the whole map again, which I am not prepared to do. if anyone wants to have a challenge and look at it please be my guest.
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#1 - I see. My comment was only that it wasn't necessary as an objective if the Russians can't get there to defend it. If you want them to at least try, then a spawn should be moved closer.
#2 - NP if that is what you are going for.
#3 - I think it was the one that is parallel with the Rail Line objective. I am not saying Germans were in the spawn or spawn killing, just that they set up on the hill (ridge) directly overlooking the spawn and the spawning Russians. Seemed very awkward for the Russians seeing a German with an MG already trained on you laying up on the ridge when you respawn...
#4 - If that is what you want with the bridge, then I think you have gotten it. It would be nice as a Russian to feel you have the illusion of defending it though. Not even being able to get there for most of the Russian players because they are trying to catchup to the Germans (coming at the bridge from almost the same direction and being behind them) just doesn't work. I don't know if you have a different spawn that allows the Russians to approach the bridge from a different angle, I spawned in the same spot as for the Rail Line objective. That might make a difference. Otherwise, it makes the end of the map seem.... (sorry) a bit pointless for the Russians and a lackluster win for the Germans.
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Mind you, my comments are only from playing it twice and could be way off!!!
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Question for people that want to influence this map, since B2 I had people dislike the fact there is more tanks in it.
Should I got back too 1 tank for russians and 2 for the germans or leave it as it is.
I do want a wide range of opinions and please state your case as nicley as possible.
Also give me the name of your ultimate map at the moment so I can box you in your typical style of preferences.
Should I got back too 1 tank for russians and 2 for the germans or leave it as it is.
I do want a wide range of opinions and please state your case as nicley as possible.
Also give me the name of your ultimate map at the moment so I can box you in your typical style of preferences.
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Haven't had a chance to play it in a few days. Just what is the tank loadout? I imagine it is ok especially if up to 50 players may be involved, but not sure...
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It varies for the russian spawn, from first tank position
1. T-34/76 and T-60
2. 2 T34/76
3. 1 T34/76 and 1 T34/85
Germans are consistant ant the way through.
2 PIVH's and 1 PIIIL
If the map is played with only 20 people you really only have a handful holding the russian spawn area, considering maybe on the german side 5 people might be tankers and on the russian side 4.
1. T-34/76 and T-60
2. 2 T34/76
3. 1 T34/76 and 1 T34/85
Germans are consistant ant the way through.
2 PIVH's and 1 PIIIL
If the map is played with only 20 people you really only have a handful holding the russian spawn area, considering maybe on the german side 5 people might be tankers and on the russian side 4.
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Jumped in the map by myself, a few people joined but it was late, so here are a few comments on the Beta 2....
I played as German.
- Church is way too close to the Germans to be an objective at this point. If going to be used as an objective, it has to feel like one (maybe similar to the way the Crossroads or the Outpost are used in Berezina) to the Russians, like they have even a little chance. I suggest starting the Germans on the road around a corner (with spawn protection minefields) and also having a few Russians spawn near the area. I imagine at this close point, all you want to do is have the Russians attempt to slow down the Germans before they get to the Creekbed. Not even really a minor defense point, more of a nuisance for the Germans. Suggest maybe one AT Gun randomly spawn (or not, keep the Germans guessing) in the vacinity.
- At the Creekbed, I can see a Russian tank making it to this point to defend (as did happen). Again, I imagine this point is also just to slow down the Germans so the Russians have a chance for defense. This would be ok if Russian infantry can get here on foot in a reasonable amount of time. Minor defense point.
- I can see some sort of combined arms defense here at the Gully. Russian armor along with several AT guns can possibly put up some sort of defense if the Russians play it right. This position along with the AT guns at the Mortar position could really slow down the Germans.
- I noticed that you pretty much need infantry to capture the Mortar Position. That is good. I could not get a PzIII up there. The area overlooks the road the Germans need to continue their breakout, so must be assualted. IMO, the Russians need to be able to get to this spot more than the Gully in order to defend it and to bring fire down onto the road. Suggest their spawn not be too far to the rear when objectives are moving. Make sure one of the AT guns face in that direction (directly perpendicular to road) or have a chance to if they are randomly spawning...
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That is as far as I got tonight. I am tired and wanted to post something. I like the mostly linear feel of this map as far as a breakout goes. The Germans should be trying to smash thru as fast as possible while the Russians have a few hasty defense areas along with a couple of major ones. It is ok if a few Russians get bypassed, but that should not be the norm. Definately no fun for a Russian if he is constantly chasing after German vehicles on foot and falling behind.
I still really need to play it more. I have only ever been able to play it in segments here and there. Will post more when I get to check out more areas.
I played as German.
- Church is way too close to the Germans to be an objective at this point. If going to be used as an objective, it has to feel like one (maybe similar to the way the Crossroads or the Outpost are used in Berezina) to the Russians, like they have even a little chance. I suggest starting the Germans on the road around a corner (with spawn protection minefields) and also having a few Russians spawn near the area. I imagine at this close point, all you want to do is have the Russians attempt to slow down the Germans before they get to the Creekbed. Not even really a minor defense point, more of a nuisance for the Germans. Suggest maybe one AT Gun randomly spawn (or not, keep the Germans guessing) in the vacinity.
- At the Creekbed, I can see a Russian tank making it to this point to defend (as did happen). Again, I imagine this point is also just to slow down the Germans so the Russians have a chance for defense. This would be ok if Russian infantry can get here on foot in a reasonable amount of time. Minor defense point.
- I can see some sort of combined arms defense here at the Gully. Russian armor along with several AT guns can possibly put up some sort of defense if the Russians play it right. This position along with the AT guns at the Mortar position could really slow down the Germans.
- I noticed that you pretty much need infantry to capture the Mortar Position. That is good. I could not get a PzIII up there. The area overlooks the road the Germans need to continue their breakout, so must be assualted. IMO, the Russians need to be able to get to this spot more than the Gully in order to defend it and to bring fire down onto the road. Suggest their spawn not be too far to the rear when objectives are moving. Make sure one of the AT guns face in that direction (directly perpendicular to road) or have a chance to if they are randomly spawning...
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That is as far as I got tonight. I am tired and wanted to post something. I like the mostly linear feel of this map as far as a breakout goes. The Germans should be trying to smash thru as fast as possible while the Russians have a few hasty defense areas along with a couple of major ones. It is ok if a few Russians get bypassed, but that should not be the norm. Definately no fun for a Russian if he is constantly chasing after German vehicles on foot and falling behind.
I still really need to play it more. I have only ever been able to play it in segments here and there. Will post more when I get to check out more areas.
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Hubey 3 will be out at the end of this week with those issues fixed and some extras , play the rest and please comment.
I must say when playing it last night on a pub server as Allies it was to my surprise that I had 2 tanks working together in defending the objectives. We even held the bridge for 9minutes on a full 32 slot server due to good work but all people involved.
, play the rest and please comment.I must say when playing it last night on a pub server as Allies it was to my surprise that I had 2 tanks working together in defending the objectives. We even held the bridge for 9minutes on a full 32 slot server due to good work but all people involved.
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I have tons of stuff re the 3rd battle of Kharkov (Jan-March 1943), including topographical maps, OBs, and some really nice maps to start with for ideas (from Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin).
Also, for a look at what some guys did for 3rd Battle of Kharkov time period in CMBB, see www.blowtorchscenarios.com)
I suggested this period for it's fluid, combined arms battles. I posted on this, hmm, probably a year ago around here somewhere.
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Thanks to Slyk I have fixed the issue. I have a scrim vs a clan tonight who have kindly volunteered to test out Hubes 3, so depending on the outcome it should be played by the public mid week fingers crossed.
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