Guess how surprised I was when the mg had worked fine just seconds before and then that happens. The bullets landed(bullet puffs could be seen) a meter or so to the left. Happened only once though.
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Beta Map RO-Gorlitz Beta 3
- Thread starter FlashPanHunter
- Start date
Guess how surprised I was when the mg had worked fine just seconds before and then that happens. The bullets landed(bullet puffs could be seen) a meter or so to the left. Happened only once though.
I've been looking into the problem with MGs shooting down and left. I cant tell if its just the puffs and tracers that sometimes are off or whether the actual bullets are off. I know it only happens online but I cant figure out how severe the problem really is given that I can still kill people with high efficiency. I know the UC displays some really wierd firing patters for the MG, but again, I dont know if it is a real difference or just a cosmetic one.
Even with these problems I think that the UC mg is pretty good at sending bullets whizzing over german heads to keep them down. Good UC-infantry teamwork is as important as good Tank-infantry teamwork, and good UCing is nearly as important as good Tanking, UCs cant go on mad cavalry charges w/o infantry there to spot sneeky germans that the driver and gunner cant see.
Even with these problems I think that the UC mg is pretty good at sending bullets whizzing over german heads to keep them down. Good UC-infantry teamwork is as important as good Tank-infantry teamwork, and good UCing is nearly as important as good Tanking, UCs cant go on mad cavalry charges w/o infantry there to spot sneeky germans that the driver and gunner cant see.
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Great job with this map. I have to say that this is my most favorite map of them all.
I am very impressed.
I am very impressed.
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Played it for the first time last night, and WOW what a map!! This thing is EXCELLENT.
I played as the Germans and won twice, but the second time was fairly close. The Germans have to use time and keep an eye on their reinforcements. The Russians need armor/vehicle support and need to keep the pressure on.
all in all, a very well balanced map with a real sense of franticness. And it's great to finally see the SU-76 being used as a true assault gun.
The one thing I'd say is that, to maybe make things interesting, give the Russians UCs and SU-76s only, and leave the tanks out of it. And that's simply to divide the roles of "HE round platform" and "MG platform" to force a little more coordination and teamwork. It's not necessary, just an idea to toy with.
Also, when is this map set? I can't quite tell. You've got a T-34-85 on a map where the Germans have STG-44s, but also have G-41s. I'd have figured if it's a later war map, the G-41s would be G-43s instead. Not that big a deal, just something to think about.
As for the Russians using smoke, eh, I'm torn. I think peopel are still learning the map, but I question whether it'll be necessary. You put a lot of cover in the map, but there's still some long runs out in the open that a Russian soldier needs to make. That's where it'd seem the AFVs would come in -- providing covering fire from long range. As long as they're used wisely, it shouldn't be a problem (Much like in Berezina how the Germans need to use combined arms wisely to let the infantry get into the cap zones.
The only other issue I'd mention is that some of the obstacles that look to be shooting positions for German troops don't seem to be quite the right height to rest a rifle on. I can't point to specific things, but some of the windowsills with sandbags and some of the rock walls might need to be resized just a titch.
Anyway, great job. i love the feel of the map on either side, and I look forward to playing it again.
I played as the Germans and won twice, but the second time was fairly close. The Germans have to use time and keep an eye on their reinforcements. The Russians need armor/vehicle support and need to keep the pressure on.
all in all, a very well balanced map with a real sense of franticness. And it's great to finally see the SU-76 being used as a true assault gun.
The one thing I'd say is that, to maybe make things interesting, give the Russians UCs and SU-76s only, and leave the tanks out of it. And that's simply to divide the roles of "HE round platform" and "MG platform" to force a little more coordination and teamwork. It's not necessary, just an idea to toy with.
Also, when is this map set? I can't quite tell. You've got a T-34-85 on a map where the Germans have STG-44s, but also have G-41s. I'd have figured if it's a later war map, the G-41s would be G-43s instead. Not that big a deal, just something to think about.
As for the Russians using smoke, eh, I'm torn. I think peopel are still learning the map, but I question whether it'll be necessary. You put a lot of cover in the map, but there's still some long runs out in the open that a Russian soldier needs to make. That's where it'd seem the AFVs would come in -- providing covering fire from long range. As long as they're used wisely, it shouldn't be a problem (Much like in Berezina how the Germans need to use combined arms wisely to let the infantry get into the cap zones.
The only other issue I'd mention is that some of the obstacles that look to be shooting positions for German troops don't seem to be quite the right height to rest a rifle on. I can't point to specific things, but some of the windowsills with sandbags and some of the rock walls might need to be resized just a titch.
Anyway, great job. i love the feel of the map on either side, and I look forward to playing it again.
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More things I've begun to notice:
-As far as smoke is concerned, you're right, it is a double edged sword. While it does give cover for advancing Russians to move up, it also blinds armour! I was playing for a while last night and had the chance to use the MG42. Smoke would be thrown, and I would notice that I'd have free reign to setup my machine gun and fire away at silouettes emerging from the smoke; all the while safe from an HE round from a looming T34.
So it really boils down to how well the teams use it. Everything in this map that I've noticed calls for dedicated teamwork and coordination on both sides. The Russians can't advance unless the infantry and armour are coordinating together. The Germans can't defend if they intend on ramboing it. This also applies to the usage of smoke.
***Peronsal experience alert***
-Could just be when I play, but I've never seen the Germans lose on this map, and because of that, I've never seen the later parts of the map except on my own explore time. Given enough time though, they eventually would, but 41 minutes just never seems to be enough time for the Russians to eventually win. Last night when I played, the Russians had *just* made it beyond the first major bridgehead when the round finally ended.
***/End personal experience alert***
-Panzerfausts:
I have mixed feelings about this myself, but have you ever thought of making the Panzerfausts part of an AT class rather than spread around for any class to pick up? The way you have it now is a fair bit more realistic (with the exception of panzerfausts respawning out of thin air of course, hehe), but for the sake of gameplay, sometimes I get the feeling that Panzerfausts are too effect in this map, and it's not that Panzerfausts themselves are too powerful, but even with the PF changes, it's still easy to have a fair amount of them spread out across half the German team. We all know that 3 Panzerfausts in the hands of 3 players (as in 1 PF each) is far more effective than 3 Panzerfausts in the hands of 1. I've played tank before on this map and it's scary! From everywhere Panzerfausts can reign down, and with all the rubble in the way, it's not uncommon, because of the arc of its fire, to have PFs blindly launched over top of rubble and hit you when they can't even see you.
So because of that, I suggest instead of having Panzerfausts spread out across the map grounds, to create AT classes to limit the amount of Panzerfausts that each player has access to. I played as German last night, and I didn't fear their armour. None of us did. Even when their armour began to coordinate a little better with the advancing Russian infantry, I still didn't fear it, because I knew somewhere near me, there would be a German player with a PF on hand. Having AT classes would also force some team reliance, which for the sake of gameplay, isn't such a bad thing.
Side note - having one or two laying around here and there isn't a bad thing in case the tanks get stuck (or disabled). I haven't see it yet, but it can happen. Good for Russians tankers to use in case their tanks get stuck.
Other notes:
-The MG34 probably wasn't as common by this stage in the war, but they were still around and available for usage in infantry ranks, as production of the MG34 was never stopped. Most players find the MG34 to be a little easier to use than the MG42, or just prefer it in general (I prefer the MG42 personally). Having the option to use it would be nice.
-The STG44 and MG42 are, by far, the bread and butter of the German defenses in this map.
-Please please please add the MN91/30 to the Russian loadout for this map! Rifle nuts like me would really appreciate this.
-As far as smoke is concerned, you're right, it is a double edged sword. While it does give cover for advancing Russians to move up, it also blinds armour! I was playing for a while last night and had the chance to use the MG42. Smoke would be thrown, and I would notice that I'd have free reign to setup my machine gun and fire away at silouettes emerging from the smoke; all the while safe from an HE round from a looming T34.
So it really boils down to how well the teams use it. Everything in this map that I've noticed calls for dedicated teamwork and coordination on both sides. The Russians can't advance unless the infantry and armour are coordinating together. The Germans can't defend if they intend on ramboing it. This also applies to the usage of smoke.
***Peronsal experience alert***
-Could just be when I play, but I've never seen the Germans lose on this map, and because of that, I've never seen the later parts of the map except on my own explore time. Given enough time though, they eventually would, but 41 minutes just never seems to be enough time for the Russians to eventually win. Last night when I played, the Russians had *just* made it beyond the first major bridgehead when the round finally ended.
***/End personal experience alert***
-Panzerfausts:
I have mixed feelings about this myself, but have you ever thought of making the Panzerfausts part of an AT class rather than spread around for any class to pick up? The way you have it now is a fair bit more realistic (with the exception of panzerfausts respawning out of thin air of course, hehe), but for the sake of gameplay, sometimes I get the feeling that Panzerfausts are too effect in this map, and it's not that Panzerfausts themselves are too powerful, but even with the PF changes, it's still easy to have a fair amount of them spread out across half the German team. We all know that 3 Panzerfausts in the hands of 3 players (as in 1 PF each) is far more effective than 3 Panzerfausts in the hands of 1. I've played tank before on this map and it's scary! From everywhere Panzerfausts can reign down, and with all the rubble in the way, it's not uncommon, because of the arc of its fire, to have PFs blindly launched over top of rubble and hit you when they can't even see you.
So because of that, I suggest instead of having Panzerfausts spread out across the map grounds, to create AT classes to limit the amount of Panzerfausts that each player has access to. I played as German last night, and I didn't fear their armour. None of us did. Even when their armour began to coordinate a little better with the advancing Russian infantry, I still didn't fear it, because I knew somewhere near me, there would be a German player with a PF on hand. Having AT classes would also force some team reliance, which for the sake of gameplay, isn't such a bad thing.
Side note - having one or two laying around here and there isn't a bad thing in case the tanks get stuck (or disabled). I haven't see it yet, but it can happen. Good for Russians tankers to use in case their tanks get stuck.
Other notes:
-The MG34 probably wasn't as common by this stage in the war, but they were still around and available for usage in infantry ranks, as production of the MG34 was never stopped. Most players find the MG34 to be a little easier to use than the MG42, or just prefer it in general (I prefer the MG42 personally). Having the option to use it would be nice.
-The STG44 and MG42 are, by far, the bread and butter of the German defenses in this map.
-Please please please add the MN91/30 to the Russian loadout for this map! Rifle nuts like me would really appreciate this.
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I appreciate the feedback, especially the detailed posts you guys are making, thank you, it does help a lot, and I do listen to the advice. A couple of things that keep coming up:
The g41: I've justified having this because technically it is historically feasible, as it was still seeing service, and I like it in because it is a really cool weapon and really well done in game. G43 could be there, but I like having this somewhat more exotic weapon in.
A paksoldat: I thought about it, and I would do if if they only had one faust. What would be ideal even would be to allow players a choice between a grenade and a pf, but that's not an option. My personal experience has never led me to believe that there were too many fausts, in fact there were a couple of times where I saw the germans fall back because there was incoming armor and they were holding a position where no one had any fausts.
The fausts may be scary in the game, but they were pretty scary weapons in the war, so I'm not worried yet about the challenge they pose to the soviet armor. And considering the way I have seen the tankers stomp all over the germans in a number of rounds, I feel, for the time being at least, that the balance is more or less correct. As the play on the map changes, people get more familiar with it, etc. I will adjust as necessary.
The g41: I've justified having this because technically it is historically feasible, as it was still seeing service, and I like it in because it is a really cool weapon and really well done in game. G43 could be there, but I like having this somewhat more exotic weapon in.
A paksoldat: I thought about it, and I would do if if they only had one faust. What would be ideal even would be to allow players a choice between a grenade and a pf, but that's not an option. My personal experience has never led me to believe that there were too many fausts, in fact there were a couple of times where I saw the germans fall back because there was incoming armor and they were holding a position where no one had any fausts.
The fausts may be scary in the game, but they were pretty scary weapons in the war, so I'm not worried yet about the challenge they pose to the soviet armor. And considering the way I have seen the tankers stomp all over the germans in a number of rounds, I feel, for the time being at least, that the balance is more or less correct. As the play on the map changes, people get more familiar with it, etc. I will adjust as necessary.
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You could limit them by importing the PanzerFaustAmmo class from the ROAmmo into your map. 2 would be reasonable for a PaK-Soldat class. Then everyone else including them will only be able to carry 2.
Rename it to something like PanzerFaustAmmoFPH then extend it to PanzerFaustAmmo.
Code:
class PanzerFaustAmmoFPH extends PanzerFaustAmmo;
defaultproperties
{
ItemName="Panzerfaust"
IconMaterial=Material'InterfaceArt_tex.HUD.panzerfaust_ammo'
IconCoords=(X1=445,Y1=75,X2=544,Y2=149)
PickupClass=none//class'G43AmmoPickup'
MaxAmmo=1
InitialAmount=2
}
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Interesting, can this be embedded in myLevel or would the map require an additional package?
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The mesh for the arcades near the German spawn for the 1st Bridgehead is transparent inside. You stand under the arches and look up, you see the sky.
You stand under the arches and look up, you see the sky.
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Awesome map FPH. I've played all 3 versions quite a few times now.
First version i saw tankers getting scores of over 300!!! Thought that was bad.
2nd version was ok but i actually thought the Axis could do with smoke at times, to get close to stand off tanks
3rd version i think works well. It's hard for both sides all through the map.
A couple of tiny things i'm not keen on that haven't been mentioned tho.
When the Axis spawnpoint drops back to the 1st railyard spawn the russians haven't yet reached the bridge. It takes over 1 minute to run from spawn to the front line. Even when the Allies do get to the bridges it's good 40+ secs to get to the front line ( i don't mean the bridge the Allies are attacking, i mean just to the 88's or over the other side of the river via the righthand bridge) & if the tanks take the left street you can't get near the frontline. After 1 min of running only to be vapourised by a HE shell 3 or 4 times i got a bit miffed & gave up trying to 1) counter attack (famous German tactic) 2) get a good defensive position. Maybe just moving it fwd to the 88 near the righthand bridge would help??
The other thing i noticed was that many times when standing behind a rubble barracade i couldn't rest my weapon in it. In real life i'd be lying against it with my weapon rested but only a few positions could i get close enough because of the shape & the fact you can't lean fwd onto it. This made accurate shooting at distant or hidden targets hard.
Apart from that & a few things mentioned already (doors etc.) this has got to be one of, if not the best map out. You have the makings of a classic (which it already seems to be).
I can't wait to see it with all the tweeks & things.
Oh just one more thing. I can't remember where but there's a few places where you get stuck on rocks on the floor or kirbs on the pavement. Wish i could tell you where but i forget exactly.
Keep up the excelent work mate.
Rob
First version i saw tankers getting scores of over 300!!! Thought that was bad.
2nd version was ok but i actually thought the Axis could do with smoke at times, to get close to stand off tanks
3rd version i think works well. It's hard for both sides all through the map.
A couple of tiny things i'm not keen on that haven't been mentioned tho.
When the Axis spawnpoint drops back to the 1st railyard spawn the russians haven't yet reached the bridge. It takes over 1 minute to run from spawn to the front line. Even when the Allies do get to the bridges it's good 40+ secs to get to the front line ( i don't mean the bridge the Allies are attacking, i mean just to the 88's or over the other side of the river via the righthand bridge) & if the tanks take the left street you can't get near the frontline. After 1 min of running only to be vapourised by a HE shell 3 or 4 times i got a bit miffed & gave up trying to 1) counter attack (famous German tactic) 2) get a good defensive position. Maybe just moving it fwd to the 88 near the righthand bridge would help??
The other thing i noticed was that many times when standing behind a rubble barracade i couldn't rest my weapon in it. In real life i'd be lying against it with my weapon rested but only a few positions could i get close enough because of the shape & the fact you can't lean fwd onto it. This made accurate shooting at distant or hidden targets hard.
Apart from that & a few things mentioned already (doors etc.) this has got to be one of, if not the best map out. You have the makings of a classic (which it already seems to be).
I can't wait to see it with all the tweeks & things.
Oh just one more thing. I can't remember where but there's a few places where you get stuck on rocks on the floor or kirbs on the pavement. Wish i could tell you where but i forget exactly.
Keep up the excelent work mate.
Rob
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It's not low FPS, it happens to me at 80 FPS. Strangely, my shots go down and right... and it's not just the puffs, but the actual bullets, if I aim the puffs toward the enemy I get a kill.
Also, is it possible to give the Combat Engineer some grenades? Please? Considering I have to rush into enemy fire with just this crappy short range smg, it would be nice to be able to make a hole for myself.
Ah, the life of the CE. I got kicked for TKs last night because nobody would pay attention to my repeated warnings that I was going to blow the barricades. People were attracted to those things like flies to s***. I mean, it's ONLY crucial to winning the game that they get destroyed, so let's all use them for cover while the CE yells at us to move! Haha, okay needed to vent. Rant over.
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Can you also add the G43 for the germans, only G41's is a bit weird (it wasn't used that much).
Something different, the biggest problem for the russians is the 2nd bridgehead. That is the point where the game stoppes with the assault and where the russians are always losing. Maybe you can make the russian spawn closer to the bridge as they have to walk too long at the moment.
Next to that it is a great map, really my favorite.
Something different, the biggest problem for the russians is the 2nd bridgehead. That is the point where the game stoppes with the assault and where the russians are always losing. Maybe you can make the russian spawn closer to the bridge as they have to walk too long at the moment.
Next to that it is a great map, really my favorite.
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Had one of the best games ever on this map, full server, playing as Russian rifleman, no nades, no nothing.
Allied win !
Any little things amiss are not worth mentioning as I'm sure you are aware already !
Thank you !
Allied win !
Any little things amiss are not worth mentioning as I'm sure you are aware already !
Thank you !
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Maybe the solution to this problem is not to add nades, but perhaps to give the CE the option of taking an M38 or M44. I think that'd be reasonably balanced. You can pick the PPS-43 for short range spray 'n' pray or burst fire, or you can take the M38 for longer range, but lousy rate of fire. Seems like an even tradeoff to me, but one that allows flexibility in playstyle.
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There was a discussion of this on a previous page, I think what is going to happen is that the riflemen will get an svt or mn, while the ce will get the pps43 or m44. I agree that the ce needs options, it's a tough role with the limited weapon choice.
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Played this a whole bunch of times on both side. B3 still feel like a 75/25 win ratio in favor of the Germans. If both teams are good it seems to get stalemated at the 88's. Axis can load up the street behind it while the mg can cut off reinforcements from the next cap and recap over and over. I would suggest that if the 88's were made not recappable, it would help get it so the teams on pubs don't get lopsided as it can get now out of frustration. Great map my favorite right now playing from either side.
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I know what you mean about the 88s objective, it's still a little tough for the soviets, but I want to keep it open for the recap and allow for the germans to counter attack. Gameplay wise this is my favorite part of the part of the map, I think it just needs to be tweaked so that the soviet advance is a little easier. What I have found is that if the russians break through to the rear street with armor support they can really make things tough and force a breakthrough, but other attack paths get cut down pretty quickly.
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The game play setting is almost prefect now,I hope that you will put more [URL="http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4"]architectural features and landmarks into the map,I have some suggestion about the location of landmark buildings:
The city hall :
It would be good to put a building which can allow the german get inside.
The Bridge Head coner:
'
How about a restaurant or small shop here?with interior and occupiable second floor for german to hold the bridge.
The Central Square:
Another important defensive position for german ,occupiable 2nd or 3rd floor.
Near the 2nd Bridge,how about a huge nazi poster on a theatre billboard here?Imply the beginning of the final stage of the game.
88s Building, how about a grand hotel here ,with occupiable 2nd or 3rd floor, which allow both side go through the street behind
Thankyou FlashPanHunter!
The city hall :
It would be good to put a building which can allow the german get inside.
The Bridge Head coner:
How about a restaurant or small shop here?with interior and occupiable second floor for german to hold the bridge.
The Central Square:
Another important defensive position for german ,occupiable 2nd or 3rd floor.
Near the 2nd Bridge,how about a huge nazi poster on a theatre billboard here?Imply the beginning of the final stage of the game.
88s Building, how about a grand hotel here ,with occupiable 2nd or 3rd floor, which allow both side go through the street behind
Thankyou FlashPanHunter!
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