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Can a Nashorn destroy an IS2 at 4600m?

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Elysium

Grizzled Veteran
Jul 28, 2006
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Palmerston North, New Zealand
#1
Well I was reading a thread in open discussion from some guy claiming the tank system isn't right, like so many people, and along the thread someone claims

quote by Oleg

"Reported by whom? I would be more than happy to just continue this thread as insult-fest, but if you want to raise it to academic and scientific levels, be my guest, and start by citing your sources? Not some website with "it is reported" gossip - hard, peer reviewed historical sources.

Also, speaking from the scientific standpoint - do you know what is the energy from a Nashorn gun at THAT insanely huge distance? Do you know how thick is the IS-2 armor?

Get the numbers, learn some high school physics and do the math.

After you do the math, ask yourself what are the chances of EVEN IDENTIFYING a tank - let alone friend or foe, and LET ALONE the exact type - at that distance. Oh, did the guy get the tactical number on the tank's turret? :p


Now old Wiki claims it happened
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashorn
It is reported that in early March of 1945, Lieutenant Beckmann from sPzJagAbt 88 destroyed a Soviet IS-2 at a range of 4600 meters near Marzdorf.

Now does anyone have any other sources they now of this event and if if could have happened?
 
#3
Nashorn had basically (though there were differences) the same basic 88mm as the King Tiger, Elefant and Jagdpanther - if you can find data with those sort of ranges and kills for any of them, its a good bet it could apply to the Nash too. Whether that sort of range is BS or not i couldnt tell ya im afraid...but the above may help with getting some figures to argue with.

Wiki can be a good reference but ya need more than that for a good discussion...time allowing, i'll see if i can find anything later about it to add here.
 
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#4
The IS-2's frontal armor is 90-120mm, the Nashorn could penetrate 120ish mm of armor at 2500 meters. At 4600 meters, nearly twice the distance, I imagine it's penetration ability would drop to less than 60mm. The only way it would seem possible to get a kill would be to land a shot on the top of the tank. With that distance you would need to use the gun like a howitzer, therefore allowing to drop the shell right on top of the tank.

But at 4600 meters, I doubt it, you would have to be incredibly lucky (can you even see that far with the tanks optics?) Even if they could see it, it would be a tiny speck, so how would they even know it's an IS-2?

My call, highly, highly unlikely, probably just an exageration.
 
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#9
Even with perfect light conditions using the tank optics you would not be able to tell if it was friend or foe or to even to be able to judge how to hit. It could be possible in theory but highly unlikely. Having actually been to numerous gunneries anything beyond 2000 meters is hard to hit on a modern tank. If it is moving then it is even worse! ( using the GAS sight not the thermal ). For even modern tanks that range is stretching their capabilties when you use TI or FLIR with a LRF. The chance for fratracide is too great at that range.
 
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#14
well making a rough guess of these tiger penetration quotes on tarif (yes i know its suspected of being unreliable)http://www.tarrif.net/
the tiger2's shell decreases in penetration about 20mm for 500m, its 150mm at 2000m so that would mean another 4 sets of 500m, making that 4x20=80mm so 150 - 80 = 70mm, so on a rear or side shot that could still be penetrating

however, for the aiming atthat distance, if the tank were damaged and couldent move and you had time to aim and fire a few, it could be possible, the 88mm is said to have a VERY flat trajectory, making it easy even for an "unexperienced gunner to hit targets at 1500m". giving that the tiger 2's ammo also flew at 1100m's that would mean a 4 second shell flight, meaning a hit is practiacally only possible on a non moving target, with a few shells expended for in order to attain a good hit, also , if the nashorn was on high ground, its quite possible this could have happened.

HOWEVER; at that distance it could very well have been a t34, or a kvi, kvi 85, js1, or any other assortment of tanks, it really would only be a small object on the horizon at 4 and a half kilometers.

edit: the tiger 2, had a kill max range on an is2 of 1000 meters on frontal armor, so it must have been sides or rear. also remember that the diameter of the shell can overcome armor under itself easier.
 
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