Can a Nashorn destroy an IS2 at 4600m?
- Thread starter Elysium
- Start date
![Dumba [cro]](/data/avatars/s/5/5293.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
Here's the good old Matilda I:
Gotta love the 'trackguards are for sissies' design.
Right, that's me done - you can have ur thread back whilst I sit back and listen to the sound of "fap, fap fap, penetration values, fap, Porsche engine, fap, one Tiger of SSPzAbt666 once took out 275,368 IS2's and slept with their crews' girlfriends in 3 days in 1945, fap, fap etc. etc."
Gotta love the 'trackguards are for sissies' design.
Right, that's me done - you can have ur thread back whilst I sit back and listen to the sound of "fap, fap fap, penetration values, fap, Porsche engine, fap, one Tiger of SSPzAbt666 once took out 275,368 IS2's and slept with their crews' girlfriends in 3 days in 1945, fap, fap etc. etc."
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Matildas were junk, period
Also according to my empirical research in CMBB the Nashorn killing an IS2 at 4000m is not only possible but probable.
I quite like the Nashorn in CMBB, they're cheap and accurate, work well if you keep them at range and fire from hull down, nothing like cheap 88mm power. Just don't get close or you'll lose quickly.
Also according to my empirical research in CMBB the Nashorn killing an IS2 at 4000m is not only possible but probable.
I quite like the Nashorn in CMBB, they're cheap and accurate, work well if you keep them at range and fire from hull down, nothing like cheap 88mm power. Just don't get close or you'll lose quickly.
had a nice bug lately
had 6 nashorns all @ hulldown against 1 KV-1
distance was 1800m
the KV1 shot all 6 nashorns with 1 shot each....
after surrendering i saw he was green
had 6 nashorns all @ hulldown against 1 KV-1
distance was 1800m
the KV1 shot all 6 nashorns with 1 shot each....
after surrendering i saw he was green
That's definitely weird, I usually have taken Nashorns because I can afford almost 2 platoons of them for the cost of 4 Pak43's and then employ them in good fixed positions, do some damage and withdraw to a new spot etc.
well i def know how to play CMBB but sometimes i get those wierd....
ubertanks
once had that with a tank of my own
i think it was a PzIV ausf. F
whilst his platoon didnt manage to got ANY kills (xept infantry) the platoonleader (whilst beeing only trained) shot down 8 T70 and 5 T34 and even 1 KV1-S)
also once had a infantry team that killed 6 tanks with : 4 p-fausts, and 4 nades
they were alone in a building and had a few russian platoons shoot at them... they didnt even get supressed
Right, that's me done - you can have ur thread back whilst I sit back and listen to the sound of "fap, fap fap, penetration values, fap, Porsche engine, fap, one Tiger of SSPzAbt666 once took out 275,368 IS2's and slept with their crews' girlfriends in 3 days in 1945, fap, fap etc. etc."
That's simply a lie!!! In a Russian museum you can see the hymen of those girlfriends thus proofing that its Fashist propaganda!
On the other hand German tank aces had cameras to proof sexual intercourses and there's indeed a film of about 3 days dating back then...
If you really want to answer the question get yourselves some mathematicians -they gonna love all those variables- someone with a degree in materials science -steel and what happens if you treat him not the way you ought to while forging a tank*- and add in at least one physicist then give them some time and sooner or later they can tell you wether it is possible or not.
*You can't tell me that there weren't any minor/major failures within at least 1-2% of those tenthousands of vehicles prdouced by Axis and Allies during the whole war.
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First of all, for the beginners, Yes it was possible indeed for German tanks to aim properly at such extreme large distances, especially for the tanks that were issued with the legendary and formidable 8,8cm kwk43 gun. All tanks that were issued with the 8,8cm kwk had the Zeiss Turmzielfernrohr 9b (turret aiming scope 9b). Here, take a look at this nice picture. You can see through the aiming optics of a Elefant tank destroyer (1943 Battle at Kursk)
You can clearly see the destroyed T34 at 3,200 metres distance. Kills at this impressive range were possible because the 8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 was a very accurate gun. Plus the range scale (aiming scope) can be graduated up to 3,000 meters for the APCBC rounds, 4,000 meters for the APCR rounds, and even 6,000 meters for the HE rounds! It works like a telescopic sight, one thing Allied and Russian tanks didn't have - it's called quality! That's why German tanks had the best aiming optics in the world! The rest was only a matter of training and skill and German tank crews were the best trained in the world as well.
Second, most of the armor penetration figures posted here show only the effective capabilities against sloped armor at 30 or 60 deegres angled. But I suppose most of you guys are not familiar with the penetration figures against vertical armor. At 2,400m distance the 8,8cm kwk43 could still penetrate 156 mm of vertical armor! That surely would be enough to pierce through the IS-2's 90mm weak side armour at still over 4km.
I suppose most of you are just underestimating the power of the KwK43 L/71, which was no doubt capable of destroying tanks at incredible distances - in autumn '44, an Elefant of schwere Heeres-Panzerjaeger Kompanie 614 knocked-out a T34 at 4500m, on 23.7.44 a Ferdinand of sPzJaegAbt 654 knocked-out a 'General Lee' at 3000m and in 11.44 Fw. Kurt Knispel knocked-out a T34 at 3000m in his Koenigstiger- so there's all the reason in the world that Hornisse/Nashorn gunners achieved the same results.
Greets and Happy New Year!
:IS2:
:IS2:
You can clearly see the destroyed T34 at 3,200 metres distance. Kills at this impressive range were possible because the 8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 was a very accurate gun. Plus the range scale (aiming scope) can be graduated up to 3,000 meters for the APCBC rounds, 4,000 meters for the APCR rounds, and even 6,000 meters for the HE rounds! It works like a telescopic sight, one thing Allied and Russian tanks didn't have - it's called quality! That's why German tanks had the best aiming optics in the world! The rest was only a matter of training and skill and German tank crews were the best trained in the world as well.
Second, most of the armor penetration figures posted here show only the effective capabilities against sloped armor at 30 or 60 deegres angled. But I suppose most of you guys are not familiar with the penetration figures against vertical armor. At 2,400m distance the 8,8cm kwk43 could still penetrate 156 mm of vertical armor! That surely would be enough to pierce through the IS-2's 90mm weak side armour at still over 4km.
I suppose most of you are just underestimating the power of the KwK43 L/71, which was no doubt capable of destroying tanks at incredible distances - in autumn '44, an Elefant of schwere Heeres-Panzerjaeger Kompanie 614 knocked-out a T34 at 4500m, on 23.7.44 a Ferdinand of sPzJaegAbt 654 knocked-out a 'General Lee' at 3000m and in 11.44 Fw. Kurt Knispel knocked-out a T34 at 3000m in his Koenigstiger- so there's all the reason in the world that Hornisse/Nashorn gunners achieved the same results.
Greets and Happy New Year!
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![[TW]Wilsonam](/data/avatars/s/0/10.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
[TW]Wilsonam
VP, Tripwire Int.
Ok, I can't resist...First of all, for the beginners, Yes it was possible indeed for German tanks to aim properly at such extreme large distances, especially for the tanks that were issued with the legendary and formidable 8,8cm kwk43 gun. All tanks that were issued with the 8,8cm kwk had the Zeiss Turmzielfernrohr 9b (turret aiming scope 9b). Here, take a look at this nice picture. You can see through the aiming optics of a Elefant tank destroyer (1943 Battle at Kursk)
You can clearly see the destroyed T34 at 3,200 metres distance. Kills at this impressive range were possible because the 8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 was a very accurate gun. Plus the range scale (aiming scope) can be graduated up to 3,000 meters for the APCBC rounds, 4,000 meters for the APCR rounds, and even 6,000 meters for the HE rounds! It works like a telescopic sight, one thing Allied and Russian tanks didn't have - it's called quality! That's why German tanks had the best aiming optics in the world! The rest was only a matter of training and skill and German tank crews were the best trained in the world as well.
Second, most of the armor penetration figures posted here show only the effective capabilities against sloped armor at 30 or 60 deegres angled. But I suppose most of you guys are not familiar with the penetration figures against vertical armor. At 2,400m distance the 8,8cm kwk43 could still penetrate 156 mm of vertical armor! That surely would be enough to pierce through the IS-2's 90mm weak side armour at still over 4km.
I suppose most of you are just underestimating the power of the KwK43 L/71, which was no doubt capable of destroying tanks at incredible distances - in autumn '44, an Elefant of schwere Heeres-Panzerjaeger Kompanie 614 knocked-out a T34 at 4500m, on 23.7.44 a Ferdinand of sPzJaegAbt 654 knocked-out a 'General Lee' at 3000m and in 11.44 Fw. Kurt Knispel knocked-out a T34 at 3000m in his Koenigstiger- so there's all the reason in the world that Hornisse/Nashorn gunners achieved the same results.
Greets and Happy New Year!:IS2::IS2:
1. The TZF 9d is graduated to 2500 meters for PzGr 40/43 (APCR), not 4,000. It is set up for 4,000 meters for 39/43 (APBC), 6,000 for SpGr (HE) and 3,000 for Gr 39H1 (HEAT).
2. Given the very small reticles in the TZF 9d, I very much doubt that is a genuine picture. The level of clarity is a tad unbelievable, if it is supposed to be a combat picture taken by a camera held up to the gunner's end of the sight in a tank with the engine running! Trust me - I've tried, with a modern camera...
3. On penetration stats - the German blatte (61 and 62 series for the L/71) give a figure of 165mm at 1,000m, zero degrees, 203mm at 100m. Various other sources give 159mm at 2,000m and 145mm at 2,500, so the claimed 156mm at 2,400 is off - but not by much. That was for the APCBC rounds - to my surprise, the APCR rounds show (in the one source I can find) 159mm at 2,500m/zero degrees. I'll have to check the projectile weight - must be one helluva lot of tungsten in them to carry that energy so well! Old friends Bird/Livingston give lower figures, but I can't remember their sources.
Actually the penetration figures you listed are results achieved against 30 degree sloped plates, not zero degree ones
Recorded 8.8cm KwK43 penetration performance firing the std. 10.4 kg APCBC shot vs 30 degree sloped Rolled Homogeneous Armour plates with a 250-260 Brinnell Hardness Number:
100 m = 203 mm
500 m = 185 mm
1000 m = 165 mm
1500 m = 148 mm
2000 m = 132 mm
Above figures are pulled from the original German datenblatt's for the KwK43 gun, which can also be found quoted in some of Thomas L. Jentz's books.
Here's the penetration performance of the 8.8cm KwK43 firing the std. 10.4 kg APCBC shot versus non-sloped Rolled Homogeneous Armour with a 240 Brinnell Hardness Number:
100 m = 232 mm
500 m = 219 mm
1000 m = 204 mm
1500 m = 190 mm
2000 m = 176 mm
2500 m = 164 mm
3000 m = 153 mm
Figures are taken from Bird & Livingston's book 'World War 2 Ballistics: Armor & Gunnery'.
Vertical penetration performance at 4600 m can be precisely extrapolated as being 122 mm. So the 8.8cm KwK43 would've been quite capable of knocking out an IS-2 from 4600 meters away, either with a hit to the 100mm thick front turret or gun mantlet, or any place to the side or rear armour of the tank.
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2 countries wich applied the
3 enemy down, 2 wounded, 1 pig and 3 civilians count for 45 killed in action
counting where america and germany. These 2 always overexaggerated there enemies destroyed in battle.
That would be wrong, the German, US & British military were infact the strictest regarding deliberate overclaiming, all three nations considering accurate loss statistics as crucial intelligence. The Soviet military was another story entirely and was far worse than anyone else when it came to exaggerating enemy losses, they even went as far as faking battlefield photographs and making up German units that never existed.
No side was free from overclaiming however, but the German, US & British military were very strict regarding soldiers deliberately doing such things, and anyone caught doing it would swiftly be facing court martial.
By comparison the Soviet military didn't even consider such an act as a crime, and instead often gave credence to the figures that these individuals would make up, seeing the opportunity for a propoganda win to boost moral.
hockeywarrior
FNG / Fresh Meat
A blasphemy thread ... all who post herein have committed heresy! Oh and, talk about a major zombie thread too.
Anyway, you have been warned ....
:IS2::IS2::IS2:
Anyway, you have been warned ....
:IS2::IS2::IS2:
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http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger2.htm
If this website is right, combat accuracy of the 8,8 KwK L/71 is 13% at 4000m. With another decline in accuracy for the 600m more, there still might be some small chance to hit. Surely nothing what happens every day, but it still sounds plausible.
If this website is right, combat accuracy of the 8,8 KwK L/71 is 13% at 4000m. With another decline in accuracy for the 600m more, there still might be some small chance to hit. Surely nothing what happens every day, but it still sounds plausible.
Be aware that, iirc, those numbers are against a 1x1m target, which is significantly smaller than an IS-2.