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Bmw R75

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#63
only problem i see is that the bike's usefulness is not as great as the clowncar. while the clowncar is a bigger target for tank shells, it was protected from machinegun strafes and HE shells.
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Wait. You honestly think the clowncar's armor protected it from HE shells?

Hahahahahah. In real life, an HE round would do far more damage to a clowncar than an AP round would.

The fact that HE is weaker is only a result of Red Orchestra's unrealistic tank combat.
 
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#67
Teufel Hund said:
It really has no place in a game of RO's scope. There are MANY other light vehicles which would be far more appropriate to add. SdKfz 222, the many SdKfz 251 variants, the SdKfz 250 and it's many variants would be far more realistic and useful in a game like RO.
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And what exactly constitutes the extent of Ostfront's scope? Lets not be so limiting. Look at all they've accomplished so far :eek: ...It's an awesome, creatively inspired and fun game with so many future possibilities as well. People are hot for it ..mapmaking, modding for it and TW continues to give us great stuff. I don't think we should put any 'barbed wire' around this game or establish any definite 'lines you just don't cross' or 'scope' for it just yet.

Also I completely agree that it would be nice to add an sdKfz variant or other vehicles, but I'm suggesting BMW's and Urals here.
 
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#68
People are just trippin because they are afraid of misuse... like satchel/kamikaze runs. It's as simple as that. You've shown more than enough material to prove that they were a big part the war. Of course no one would send motorcycles to attack tanks, would some people try to use them for that? Probably. Like most everything in game though, incorrect usage usually leads nowhere and people would learn to use them as quick transports to establish forward positions, or bring some extra footsoldiers to an area that is being overrun, not as the spearhead for an attack against armor. (besides theyd be so physically weak that a couple of rifle shots, depending on distance, could do alot of damage to the bikes or kill a rider... not to mention an MG, PTRD, or tank coaxial.)


I like the idea of these in-game, but only for certain maps. Bondarevo for one would be good. At the start of the round, the Russians can make it to the Farm unopposed with the speedy BA. A couple of motorcycles for the Germans on this map would work well I think. Who knows what kind of maps will be made in the future.. they might be useful.


(besides all that, I'd like to race my Excitebike against the RiiiiiidgeRacer!)
 
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#69
einsatz3.jpg


5:00am the Kradschutzen company rolls against the timber bridge of Puchowiece on their sidecar motorcycles.. their orders: to take the bridge and to establish a bridgehead in the far bank of the river Switlocz (60 kilometers from Minsk).
The kraeder rattles at 70 k/h through the deserted villages of Borod and Plon, then they race towards Puchowiece.

The first group led by Manfred Renz tears the Kraeder into a "position curve" to the left, the centrifugal energy supports a jumping out of the soldiers from the sidecar to the right while driving, The drivers rush with the Kraedern immediately behind the crest in covering.
ein1.jpg

The soldiers run against the bridge, Renz enters it first. On the right edge of the bridge is something black: an explosive charge including igniter cord: Renz throws it down into the water. His group follows closely behind, then the company commander Vogt and the Ochsner’s group. Suddenly Russian rifles and machine guns hammer the morning silence. The soldiers run for their lives, having the bridge behind and a coverless area ahead. From the rear bank the two own armored reconnaissance vehicles the assault gun "Schill", and antitank cannon holds down the enemy with their fire. In the meantime on the rear bank the assault guns "Luetzow" and "York" appear; smoke shells were fired between the opponent and the hard pressed Kradschuetzen groups. The Russian defensive fire increases. . .
einsatz4.jpg
 
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#71
Crim said:
Wait. You honestly think the clowncar's armor protected it from HE shells?

Hahahahahah. In real life, an HE round would do far more damage to a clowncar than an AP round would.

The fact that HE is weaker is only a result of Red Orchestra's unrealistic tank combat.
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I wasn't talking about real life fool. try lobbing HE shells at the clowncar in the game and it takes at least 2 HEs to kill a clowncar, more if the blast was not in close proximity. if they modeled the bmw bike they crew should basically be like unbuttoned tank crews and will not survive a HE blast. HENCE, why i noted the bike, even if brought in the game, will not afford the same protection as the clowncar and will not be as gamey and unrealistic as the clowncar. QED
 
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#72
[5.SS]Strother said:
Sounds like a suprise attack against a foe who has no tank support. Also note that the sidecar troops jumped out and the bikes drove to safety.
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Yes Operation Barbarossa happened, blitzkrieg or 'surprise' attacks happened..
Obviously recon gathered enough info in this instance on possible enemy armor and artillery to warrant the usage of smoke.
Also note that yes troops dissmounted and overturned their bikes often in the fray to fire more accurately with their weapons and have their bikes provide a modest amount of cover.
As far as bikes driving off to safety, I'm not sure exactly where your getting that.
his45.jpg
 
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#73
So to be realistically implemented (by your example), it would have to be an entire team riding around on motorcycles. Yeah, for some reason, I don't think that's going to happen.

If motorcycles make it in-game before an actual light armored reconnaissance vehicle (SdKfz 222), I'll be sad.

Not to mention the fact that motorcycle attacks probably didn't happen after Barbarossa, and fact that the German army had better and tougher recon vehicles later in the war (ones that actually had radios).

I honestly can't see motorcycles being implemented in RO. I, for one, wouldn't want to play on a map that had them.

Edit: Wait, I just read that little story you posted earlier. Assault guns and anti-tank cannon kept up with motorcycle troops that were moving at 70 km/h?
 
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#74
Crim said:
So to be realistically implemented (by your example), it would have to be an entire team riding around on motorcycles. Yeah, for some reason, I don't think that's going to happen.
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No realistically this is just one example of one of the units involved in an overall attack going on simultaneously in one facet or another by more than just motorcycle riflemen over a decided amount of area . Blitzkrieg tactics obviously involved more resources..armour and artillery besides motorcycle riflemen.
Taken from Wikipedia:
The generally accepted definition of blitzkrieg operations includes the use of maneuver rather than attrition to defeat an opponent, and describe operations using combined arms concentration of mobile assets at a focal point, armour closely supported by mobile infantry, artillery and close air support assets. These tactics required the development of specialized support vehicles, new methods of communication, new tactics, and an effective decentralized command structure. Broadly speaking, blitzkrieg operations required the development of mechanized infantry, self-propelled artillery and engineering assets that could maintain the rate of advance of the tanks. German forces avoided direct combat in favor of interrupting an enemy's communications, decision-making, logistics making and of reducing morale. In combat, blitzkrieg left little choice for the slower defending forces but to clump into defensive pockets that were encircled and then destroyed by following German infantry.
Tactically speaking, once the weakest area of defence is identified, tactical bombers would strike at logistical, communication, and supply targets while field and self-propelled artillery units struck at defence installations. These bombardments were then pre-ceded by probing attacks and smoke screens to conceal the main armoured spearhead, and once the main armoured force broke through the designated strike area, motorized infantry would then fan out behind the armoured spearhead to capture or destroy any enemy forces encircled by panzer and mechanized infantry units or tactically important objectives like bridges, airfields, supply depots, rail yards, naval ports, anti-aircraft batteries, and radar installations.

Crim said:
Wait, I just read that little story you posted earlier. Assault guns and anti-tank cannon kept up with motorcycle troops that were moving at 70 km/h?
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yes...kept up at distances judged through a thing called tactical communication.
 
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#77
Red Orchestra models battles at the tactical level.

Blitzkrieg is a way to conduct a strategic engagement.

If Red Orchestra was a wargame, that had getting all of your forces in to position and modelled the time spent to get to the battle and such, then motorcycles would be good. Hell, they'd be necessary.

But Red Orchestra models company-level combat, after the battle has started. Motorcycles could have a place, but it would be the exception, not the rule.

At the moment, there are no maps in Red Orchestra (official or custom) where motorcycles could be deployed realistically. A large-scale tank map such as Orel would have armored cars as recon, and a map like Hedgehog would have the troops already dismounting their motorcycles at the camp before moving out to engage the enemy.
 
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#79
About 1000. They weren't particularly successful on the Eastern front, simply because of the rather harsh terrain and weather conditions. By 1942, it was mostly replaced by the 250 series of halftracks, which had much better off-road characteristics.

The SdKfz 250/9 mounted the same gun (in the same turret), and, I believe, had similar production numbers.

Generally, you could expect to see SdKfz 222s in the early war, and SdKfz 250/9s in the later war.
 
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