INF style projectile penetration mutator available!
- Thread starter Beppo
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The velocity gets decreased based on the penetration depth.
Just turn on our debugmode while testing the stuff offline. You can see log lines and clientmessages displaying a velocity before and after the impact.
Just turn on our debugmode while testing the stuff offline. You can see log lines and clientmessages displaying a velocity before and after the impact.
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Just played on 5.SS server along with 29 others. Hiding inside a house from axis fire, shots coming in through the wall and door so i must find better cover.. Being able to shoot an axis rifleman through the wall when he crouched under the window.. Some examples of how penetration adds a great deal of immersion to the game. Good job guys.
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Probably not. Or maybe.
Thing is, I have good knowledge about smallarms. I have no clue when it comes to artillery or tank shells. All I would do is guess and deduce from my current knowledge... which isn't good for a game that aims at realism.
But if someone with that knowledge wants to do a mutator that could be merged into this one using the same technique, it would be easy. Maybe one of the TWI dev could get into this. Would be a good way from them to dig into our solution to understand it.
There's nothing like trying it to learn and undestand it.
Thing is, I have good knowledge about smallarms. I have no clue when it comes to artillery or tank shells. All I would do is guess and deduce from my current knowledge... which isn't good for a game that aims at realism.
But if someone with that knowledge wants to do a mutator that could be merged into this one using the same technique, it would be easy. Maybe one of the TWI dev could get into this. Would be a good way from them to dig into our solution to understand it.
There's nothing like trying it to learn and undestand it.
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I'm not sure if a penetration mutator for shells would have any sense, especially for HE shells.
Those explode and should destroy the things it hits like houses, cabins etc. it should not penetrate walls and detonate afterwards.
Those explode and should destroy the things it hits like houses, cabins etc. it should not penetrate walls and detonate afterwards.
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Maybe not but for ap shells without a question also would it be possible to let the blast on a he shell go through certain thicknesses of materials we dont have destructable enviroments so its the next best thing
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I agree that the HE shells should explode on the surface, but it should do some serious buisniess on the inside as well...
If not killing anyone on the opposite side of the wall, it should shake them pretty badly, and give a heavy suppression effect on them.
Maybe add a "concussion zone" that decreases further into the room.
Those next to the struck wall, will instantly die, while 2m into the room you are most likely to be shocked.
AP rounds should penetrate though... Ie if someone hids behind sandbags he should get it on the opposite side no?
If not killing anyone on the opposite side of the wall, it should shake them pretty badly, and give a heavy suppression effect on them.
Maybe add a "concussion zone" that decreases further into the room.
Those next to the struck wall, will instantly die, while 2m into the room you are most likely to be shocked.
AP rounds should penetrate though... Ie if someone hids behind sandbags he should get it on the opposite side no?
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AP shells may penetrate some materials, also thin brick walls, before they explode. They'd also penetrate thicker walls, but don't explode later as the fuse would be most likely damaged (as per Pantherfibel), thus being not useful. Some PzSpGr had also a timed fuse, i.e. when used against wood constructions, to be able to explode inside and not at contact.
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Ok geobob/beppo i think i found a problem with the mutator, ok on the 5-ss server i stood behind a box and got a rifle man and smger to fire through from the other side now the penetration seemed to work however the damage a penetrated bullet seems to do is very little to nothing they both emptied they're guns at the box apart from me going red all over and me droping the gun i was perfectly ok. My advice increase the damage a penetrated bullet substantially, remeber an serverly injured player in ro is counted as a dead one so im willing to bet a bullet that penetrates a wall even if its slowed substantially is gonna put them outa action.
Also in another test i placed myself behind a metal door just outside the soviet spawn and then a rifle shot through the door now the bullet penetrated and hit me in the chest but didnt kill me this is from point blank he shot the metal door it was only when a secound bullet hit me i died. So atm there's not much use for bullet penetration as whats the point if the bullets arent gonna kill anyone.
And in another test i got someone to stand behind a metal door just outside the soviet spawn and let rip at the door from point blank at the point he was standing, this time they all seemed to penetrate however didnt hit him?
Also in another test i placed myself behind a metal door just outside the soviet spawn and then a rifle shot through the door now the bullet penetrated and hit me in the chest but didnt kill me this is from point blank he shot the metal door it was only when a secound bullet hit me i died. So atm there's not much use for bullet penetration as whats the point if the bullets arent gonna kill anyone.
And in another test i got someone to stand behind a metal door just outside the soviet spawn and let rip at the door from point blank at the point he was standing, this time they all seemed to penetrate however didnt hit him?
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There's a lot of factors at work here. How thick was the metal door? What gun were you using? The bullets will change direction once penetrating materials, etc..
As far as the box example, I could play devil's advocate. We don't know whats in the box, maybe a heavy enough material that slows the bullet down so much it just leaves a bruise when it hit your character...
Next time test behind a wood door or a wall and see if the penetration works and still kills you (hint: it does) They have posted above a table of the different materials and their hardnesses.
This mutator may have a few anomolies and bugs to sort out, but ultimately it adds way more than it takes away from the game.
As far as the box example, I could play devil's advocate. We don't know whats in the box, maybe a heavy enough material that slows the bullet down so much it just leaves a bruise when it hit your character...
Next time test behind a wood door or a wall and see if the penetration works and still kills you
(hint: it does) They have posted above a table of the different materials and their hardnesses.This mutator may have a few anomolies and bugs to sort out, but ultimately it adds way more than it takes away from the game.
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normal ww2 AP's are afaik just a kinetic projectile, that means unlike HE's they wont explode.. APs were mainly constructed to penetrate the outer hull, and then with the kinetic leftovers make a complete mess by overpressure and hull shrapnel. so an AP shell would pretty much go thru anything, rocks, houses, until it either deflects or buries itself in the dirt.
i know there were projectiles that had charges in them, but i think kinetic projectiles were much more common.
i know there were projectiles that had charges in them, but i think kinetic projectiles were much more common.
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@Ron ... the damage factor is reduced based on pentration depth. This makes a one hit kill projectile a one and a scratch kill projectile sometimes.
The other point in your descriptions was the HitPointTrace not fully working if the projectile is already inside the collison hull of the whipattachment once it penetrated the wall. So you can end up with a full clip not hurting anyone that stands exactly behind the wall...
As said before, that's a problem with the native function used and we still wait for a clarification from TWI to be able to fix this.
To the tank shells...
TWI features 'penetration' for the tank shells and the PTRD. So why should we replace this stuff that's already implemented to be able to penetrate armour.
If all you are asking for is that we should have a damage radius affecting everything that is within the explosion radius, no matter if behind a wall or not, then this is a fairly small change in the scripts that TWI can add within a minute.
Prob is, the realism behind this ... means how much damage does a HE tank shell to folks that sit in a room at the moment the shell hits the wall and how 'deep' into this room you would be able to damage folks.
Something worth to play around with. Instead of using teh standard damageradius stuff simply check for all pawns within a specific radius and damage them slightly too if they are covered behind a wall so that the standard damage radius stuff will not harm them. A smoke effect and shattering parts flying around inside the room would be possible too, if this isn't implemented yet.
btw... why is it that so many tank shells 'ricochet' from tanks you fire them at?
Sure its shape and all.... but I sometimes fire three or more tank shots in a row on a standing tank to find the projectile hitting a wall or whatever meters away from it... sometimes even 90 degree or higher angles are possible.
So, is this meant to be this way?
The other point in your descriptions was the HitPointTrace not fully working if the projectile is already inside the collison hull of the whipattachment once it penetrated the wall. So you can end up with a full clip not hurting anyone that stands exactly behind the wall...
As said before, that's a problem with the native function used and we still wait for a clarification from TWI to be able to fix this.
To the tank shells...
TWI features 'penetration' for the tank shells and the PTRD. So why should we replace this stuff that's already implemented to be able to penetrate armour.
If all you are asking for is that we should have a damage radius affecting everything that is within the explosion radius, no matter if behind a wall or not, then this is a fairly small change in the scripts that TWI can add within a minute.
Prob is, the realism behind this ... means how much damage does a HE tank shell to folks that sit in a room at the moment the shell hits the wall and how 'deep' into this room you would be able to damage folks.
Something worth to play around with. Instead of using teh standard damageradius stuff simply check for all pawns within a specific radius and damage them slightly too if they are covered behind a wall so that the standard damage radius stuff will not harm them. A smoke effect and shattering parts flying around inside the room would be possible too, if this isn't implemented yet.
btw... why is it that so many tank shells 'ricochet' from tanks you fire them at?
Sure its shape and all.... but I sometimes fire three or more tank shots in a row on a standing tank to find the projectile hitting a wall or whatever meters away from it... sometimes even 90 degree or higher angles are possible.
So, is this meant to be this way?
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I'm pretty sure most german tank AP ammunition carried at least a small HE charge. World War II Online tries to do a good job modelling various munitions and the only german AP tank shells that don't have some sort of charge are the 20mm AP rounds fired by the Pz IIc and the sdkfz 232. I think the name for the shell type is panzergranate 39?
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Yes, I remember reading this in the museum in Sinsheim last time I was there. That at least one model of AP shell they had there first penetrated the armor plating and then detonated on the other side. It also mentionned it was design specifically to reduce the chance of ricochets of angled armor plating. Maybe that's not the type of AP shell modeled in RO or not the same caliber.
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I guess geo - I have forgotten the name - that is the ammo that has a smooth head and so does not riccochet that easy, but I doubt that the ammo I am talking about exploded inside.
The only ammo I know that kinda "exploded" inside is a Shaped charge - I know that it does not explode, but I beg that people inside the target would get this impression.
The only ammo I know that kinda "exploded" inside is a Shaped charge - I know that it does not explode, but I beg that people inside the target would get this impression.
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![[TW]Wilsonam](/data/avatars/s/0/10.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
Both the Germans and the Soviets actually used "APHE" - had a small bursting charge of debatable usefulness in the base.
As for deflecting: yes, happened a good deal. Not necessarily too visibly, but we can't be perfect We don't (yet) bother modelling the difference between delecting and the round shattering - we just deflect it to represent a failed penetration.
As for deflecting: yes, happened a good deal. Not necessarily too visibly, but we can't be perfect
We don't (yet) bother modelling the difference between delecting and the round shattering - we just deflect it to represent a failed penetration.
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So, with you being here again Wilsonam ... any insights on the HitPointTrace function maybe?
Or can someone from TWI simply send me the needed C++ code snippet so that I can take a look at why it doesn't work if the projectile is already placed within the collision hull? Would be appreciated to get such an info, thx.
Or can someone from TWI simply send me the needed C++ code snippet so that I can take a look at why it doesn't work if the projectile is already placed within the collision hull? Would be appreciated to get such an info, thx.
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That explains so much
For HE shells.
You could have the normal traced blast radius and a smaller penetrating blast radius that ignores objects.
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I wouldn't even kow what a "hitpointtrace" function even is
I'll ask the "code department" - but we're on kind of a crunch time (again)!
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