Squad Leader

[Jamer]

I think some people need some advice on this class. What do you think?
It seems at times some people know what every class is for except squad leader. It's more than smoke, artty and an mg. I've personally YET to see a squad leader lead his team. It's always someone else telling the squad leader what to do.
For example, if you select demolition you know what to do, plant your charges and demolish your targets. So if you select squad LEADER, LEAD your team. Look after your team mates. point things out, send them to flank, get them to follow, lay cover fire, communicate to them and take charge and organize them. Just once I'd like to see this happen to see what happens. IMHO you should know what your doing as a LEADER or select another class. Don't take it cause you don't want the bolt rifle, it messes things up for the rest of the team.I mean whats so hard about teamplay? It's not friggen rocket science.It's the whole basis of the game.
What's your view on this?Have you played on a server where a leader takes comand?Should you have to tell him what to do?Your thoughts?

 

[20.PzGr.Schweiser]

hmmm......well, to be honest, most people don't know the true function of a squad leader. Also in the game, most are just run-and-gun players on the public servers. To really work as a group.....get into a group.

 

[Valac]

I personally dotn think being Squad leader makes a big difference to anyone. It is a class that is just what you pointed out, an SMG and smoke nades.

Having a teamplayer as squad leader will not make everyone else be teamplayers. Being squad leader does not mean people will listen to you.

If you lead the team, pick any class you want and lead it. It is nice when a squad leader realizes his precense is more than the average soldier and he tries to stay in cap zones.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12750
link to my airmchair commanders thread that is a post on all the basics a commander must know. and my little story of what happened when my team all started following orders.

valac, i actually have to challage you on your point there, ive tried to lead a team from the riflemans class and ive had people say to me "you wana lead the team, take the team leader class" so having team leader gives you a little extra "do as i say " presence, but not much.

 

[Valac]

You mnay be right. I havent had time for anything, let alone RO. Maybe it is different. I do know the way it used to be. If you were a vet and people knew you could lead them, it didnt matter what class you were.

If I went on the field now, I would most likely ****, and no one would know who the hell I am. I know if someones plan sounds like a winner, I will go with it.

 

[PsYcH0_Ch!cKeN]

I find that my class means nothing. A forceful command with a confident tone over VoIP works wonders though, regardless of what class you are. If people see you doing well on the scoreboard too it helps. People will always respond to someone who sounds like they know what they're doing, which text just can't convey.

 

[Jamer]

I personally dotn think being Squad leader makes a big difference to anyone. It is a class that is just what you pointed out, an SMG and smoke nades.

Having a teamplayer as squad leader will not make everyone else be teamplayers. Being squad leader does not mean people will listen to you.

If you lead the team, pick any class you want and lead it. It is nice when a squad leader realizes his precense is more than the average soldier and he tries to stay in cap zones.

You do make a good point , and at the same time the exact point I'm trying to convey. That is to say,IMO it should make a difference .I mentioned I'd like to "see it happen to see it happen". Perhaps I should check out Squad/Clan. Anyways, I,ve enjoyed playing with another 1 or 2 guys working together as well as team tanking.Is achieving objectives NOT compiled of intellegence & communication. I always have more success this way. I think you'd be surprised. I'm just saying this wonderful game has so much MORE to offer not to mention the possibilities.Personally I have no problem barking orders and no problem taking them. So long as it's a collective effort and I know therein lies the problem. I appreciate your input guys. I love this game and would hate to see it turn into a run and gun.

Good Gaming ! ! !

 

[Oi!Oi!Oi!]

On some map, dealing with arty only can be quite a task, you can't always expect the squad leader to really lead the troops.

 

[slyder73]

I personally dotn think being Squad leader makes a big difference to anyone. It is a class that is just what you pointed out, an SMG and smoke nades.

Having a teamplayer as squad leader will not make everyone else be teamplayers. Being squad leader does not mean people will listen to you.

If you lead the team, pick any class you want and lead it. It is nice when a squad leader realizes his precense is more than the average soldier and he tries to stay in cap zones.

On some maps the squad leader has the extra responsibility to handle the arty. When arty is needed to help win the squad leader has to be actively using that role, and in those maps it's not just an empty class to fill.

The last line there...I might have misunderstood, but when you say the squad leader's presence is more than the average soldier and he should try to stay in the capzone...does this mean that the squad leader has more "weight" in speeding up a cap or preventing a cap?

 

[Muddy_May]

does this mean that the squad leader has more "weight" in speeding up a cap or preventing a cap?

Both of these, yes. I am 99% certain that a SL in the capzone counts as two ordinary soldiers.

 

[Bat Guano]

As Valac said, choosing the squad leader slot doesn't mean people will listen to you. I'll listen to people who seem to know what they're doing and follow their orders if they make sense, whether they are squad leader or not. Especially if they are leading by example and have demonstrated their abilities. It's a bonus if this person is also the squad leader, but not essential.

The biggest advantage the squad leader has when it comes to issuing orders is that he decides where to put smoke to provide cover and where to drop the arty. If he says "attack the left flank" and then lays down some smoke to cover that avenue of attack and has arty dropping behind the objective, it's probably a good idea to follow him.

If the squad leader's orders don't make sense - for example, he's urging the team to try to re-cap an unnecessary objective when your team is down on reinforcements and needs to play for time - ignore him. No one gets promoted to squad leader in this game based on ability or experience. I recently saw a squad leader shooting teammates in spawn because they were showing the good sense to ignore his idiotic orders and were headed to where they were needed, not to where he kept telling people to go.

 

[Rak]

Being Squadleader DOES mean you have to direct your squad.

You don't even need yelling from VOIP. You already have voice commands, if you're a Squad Leader, that means you HAVE TO use them. If you issue clever orders and use teamchat, people will follow you.That means he's more than a class with "SMG, nades".

 

[Jamer]

[q. I recently saw a squad leader shooting teammates in spawn because they were showing the good sense to ignore his idiotic orders and were headed to where they were needed, not to where he kept telling people to go.[/quote]

In no way do I condon TK'ing but maybe he saw somthing you didn't. I've watched people ignore orders only to watch them get killed.This is a point I'm making. A squad leader is supposed to allready have a brain. The obvious is not necessarily the best solution.

 

[Bat Guano]

I guess my point was that picking squad leader class and issuing orders does not in itself make someone a leader. It would be great if people with experience and leadership ability would pick that class, but if a moron has selected squad leader it's better not to follow him.

 

[DirtyRat]

I love playing squad leader and I always give commands through the v menu and VOIP where appropriate but you'll be lucky if 2-3 people actually listen

The problem I think is forming squads of people together and keeping them together. I dont like comparing RO with BF2, but oh heck I will! BF2s squad system is superb, and it really helps the teamwork, by keeping groups of people spawning together on their squad leader, and following commands which are given by the commander and then passed down to all the squad members...this then shows up on your mini map as an objective (attack, defend, repair etc.)...this keeps people in tight groups of a maximum of 6, and although BF2 is a very different beast in terms of gameplay the same system could be adapted for RO.

I also think the squad leader should be able to assign objectives to different squads...e.g. You guys demolish that wall, you guys capture the warehouse etc...and then reward the players with more points if thet accomplish their assigned task! This way the public players have a real motivation to do as the squad leader says and also work with other players more.

This would obviously require a good deal of coding and a new UI, but I think the benefits are there to be seen by everyone.

Quake Wars which is coming out next year has a pretty similar idea to above in its multiplayer where individual players can all have a "mission" to accomplish. I really like this idea, and it turns a huge frag fest of a map into a more objective and tactical battle...this I think would benefit RO in a huge way.

 

[Reznor]

When playing Squad leader I usually don't give actual commands like "flank there and that" or so, because people tend not to listen to you. But with smokes nades, the voice commands (I use them a lot) and your 1,5x cap ability you can make it a lot easier for your team to cap a specific location.

Just dont exspect your other teammember to obey, but try to organize just a rough organisation by telling them what to attack and helping those who do with smokes etc.
On a public its enough if just 2-3 people actually react to your commands for good actions, since the other team is just as uncoordinated as yours

Good example is axies on Krasny:
I usually tell my team to attack petrol first ("Attack petrol yard" "Follow me!") and cover the way to petrol with smokes. The majority still goes to central, but if just 2 people follow me the petrol yard is usually quickly captured. Then I use this little "squad" of teamplayers to cut off the russians by going through garage to the sniper yard ("Follow me!")- this gives the guys attacking central just the advantage to make an easy cap.
Usually I ask for people following me through the cellar next, 1-2 guys react and follow me: This is enough for a quick ambush to the construction hall or for clearing the garage from behind.

Conclusion:
Help and organize a little, dont exspect to command though.

 

[Solo4114]

I love playing squad leader and I always give commands through the v menu and VOIP where appropriate but you'll be lucky if 2-3 people actually listen

The problem I think is forming squads of people together and keeping them together. I dont like comparing RO with BF2, but oh heck I will! BF2s squad system is superb, and it really helps the teamwork, by keeping groups of people spawning together on their squad leader, and following commands which are given by the commander and then passed down to all the squad members...this then shows up on your mini map as an objective (attack, defend, repair etc.)...this keeps people in tight groups of a maximum of 6, and although BF2 is a very different beast in terms of gameplay the same system could be adapted for RO.

I also think the squad leader should be able to assign objectives to different squads...e.g. You guys demolish that wall, you guys capture the warehouse etc...and then reward the players with more points if thet accomplish their assigned task! This way the public players have a real motivation to do as the squad leader says and also work with other players more.

This would obviously require a good deal of coding and a new UI, but I think the benefits are there to be seen by everyone.

Quake Wars which is coming out next year has a pretty similar idea to above in its multiplayer where individual players can all have a "mission" to accomplish. I really like this idea, and it turns a huge frag fest of a map into a more objective and tactical battle...this I think would benefit RO in a huge way.

Well, technically I think there is a way to do this, but I think you have to be able to FORM squads first. The bots do this already (try issuing orders when bots are on. You'll see "Ramm's Squad", "Anatoli's Squad", etc.), but I don't know how players can do it or even if they would. You can then assign specific tasks to the squad by saying things like "Attack Petrol Yard!" to Anatoli's Squad only, while telling Ivor's Squad to "Hold Position!"


As for the role of the Squad Leader, when I play it, usually it's because no one else is doing so and I know we need someone who can help capture positions faster (or hold them longer). Plus, on some maps, it helps to know how to lay artillery and smoke. A lot of people will still drop arty ON an objective, instead of BETWEEN the objective and the defenders' spawn point. Thus, you'll get friendlies who clear out the enemy, only to be blown to bits by friendly arty. Not good.

The rest of the time, I find people MAY listen to you, but even if you clearly know what you're talking about and you're not being rude or anything, they just don't give a damn and want to do what they want to do.

 

[sander]

Today I've played 3 times a game on Stalingradkessel. 1st time I wasn't squadleader and our leader was just another SMG soldier. We lose. Next round I was Squadleader and I was just giving the normal commands like attack X and defent Y. You could think what differents is this, but we won while being outnumbered. Next round the same.
A couple of months ago. Makahanova village (sp?). A map really hard to do for axis. First round someone was another SMG soldier. We even couldn't get the second object! Next round I was the squadleader. With good use of smoke, good commands about attacking in groups and keep saying where to attack and how and we won with 17 minutes spare time!

This is what a squadleader has to do. Keep saying where to attack, how, saying what object needs to be secured etc. With a good squadleader every group can win.
It also is the most fun part if you're the squadleader (or you act like one) and everybody is listening, that are those special RO moments.

 

[Tak]

Most of the time, it doesn't really matter. Some maps are an exception (all mentioned aboved with arty/smoke dependant maps) but all told, for pub play, you're just someone with choice kit selection and double capping power.

And on the arty thing, just let people use it for pete's sake I know it ****s to be TKed by arty, but if someone is completely new, how else are they going to learn without getting their knuckles (ok, well, their squad mates ) bloody a time or two? Few things are as annoying as seeing someone spam chat or VoIP about how much of a noob someone is just because they put arty in a less than ideal position once or twice. How does the saying go, you catch more ants with honey than vinegar? Something like that?
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[Quietus]

I remember back in the mod days some chowderhead commander apparently had watched EATG one too many times and was ordering players fresh out of the spawn to obey his orders precisely or be shot (which he did with his K0maNdant Pizto7). Bad players on a power trip are fun to observe. Commanders count 1 and a half times when capping though I'm sure many players playing comm have no idea and just think he's another assault trooper (keep clicking the classes till they see the PPSH graphic). Probably also the same guys who don't bother configuring their key binds either.