Level Design Lvov Outskirts, Opinions wanted

[[tR]Mad Mac]

Hello everyone.

I've decided that I want to create a set of combined arms maps (there are not enough of them) based on maps from the strategy game Close Combat 3.

I want to make my first map based on the fighting outside of Lvov, Poland at the start of Barbarosa. The problem is, Close Combat has 2 maps of this region, and I can't decide on which one to choose.

Please give me your opinions on each of these map layouts (pros/cons, gameplay ideas, etc) to help me make up my mind.

Thanks, in advance.


Here is the first potential map (click to zoom in!):




And here is the second:



Pay no attention to the infantry placement, but feel free to comment on the number of objectives and their locations.

 

[Heldentod]

make both
for the first one add another location to the entrenched hill in the middle
for the second add a location for the village at the far right side

 

[[tR]Mad Mac]

make both
for the first one add another location to the entrenched hill in the middle
for the second add a location for the village at the far right side

Ok, I will be removing some of those default CP's too.

What armor/classes should I consider?

I'm thinking 1 Panzer 3, 1 Panzer 4, and 2 halftracks for the germans (NO respawning).

For the allies, a T60 and SU (again, no respawning).

Each side will get only one large artillery barrage.

For the kits, I'm thinking 1 or 2 AT, no sappers, 1 sniper each, 2 lmgs each, limited SMG's for russians, less limited for the german assaulters.

 

[Heldentod]

as it is a map based in

 

[[tR]Mad Mac]

as it is a map based in

 

[daschewy]

couple of months ago I was planning on doing a map based on your second pic.

 

[Dheepan]

nah kv wouldn't be overkill. However i think giving 2 repsawns per tank would be alright. The map looks very large, a t60 would have a hard time engaging in range.

 

[Cyion]

first picture is better.

 

[Slyk]

Hahahaha... My last CoDUO map, "Barbarossa-Smolensk" was based on these two pictures, with the second one being the inspiration of the first half of the map!! The area in question is to the lower center. Here is the link to the 'beta1' development thread with more early build screenshots: http://www.after-hourz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8163&st=0

This is on my list of possible "do overs" to convert to RO, but not sure if it is #2 or #3 on the list at the moment. Will depend on how popular my other map is.

Good luck with this, the CC maps are great for inspiring work!

 

[Heldentod]

ah Smolensk

memories arise

 

[Witzig]

You could also add the PTRD to the Pak-Soldats and remove the Panzerfausts, so simulate the presence of the Panzerb

 

[UncleDrax]

You could also add the PTRD to the Pak-Soldats and remove the Panzerfausts, so simulate the presence of the Panzerb

 

[Nestor Makhno]

The PanzerBuchse 39 looks quite like a PTRD so that you would not really notice the difference in a busy battle.

 

[[tR]Mad Mac]

The PanzerBuchse 39 looks quite like a PTRD so that you would not really notice the difference in a busy battle.

Yeah, thats what I thought too.

Devs need to give more love to the early war weapons/vehicles.

 

[King Ragnar]

I cant see the pics?

 

[blitze]

Seems an Awesome concept and love the last pic. We need the Devs to bring back the Red Truck O love. Clown Cars just don't cut it as troot transports and the Germans have an unfair advantage with the halftracks.

If we had the trucks then I'd do a 2 truck, 1 clown car mix to every 2 german halftracks.

 

[Rameusb5]

If I may be so bold, I've modified your images to show how you might set up the maps.

In both cases, there is an ititial spawn area for both teams. Once the Germans capture the first cap zone, their spawn is moved up and the Russian's moved back. Then the battle proceeds to capture the last two zones.


In the case of equipment choices, I would suggest that you stay away from tanks, primarily since the most common early war tanks aren't ready yet, combined with the fact that ATG's aren't in the game (and would be).


If you're feeling REALLY enthousiastic, then you could model some functional ATG's and give the Germans ONLY a few PzIII's and IVF's. But I doubt you want to go down that road.

In any case, I think since this is an Assault map, tanks aren't really necessary. Give the Germans their Halftrack so that they can assault the objectives, and give the Ruskies the Scout car so that they can perform recon and have a mobile MG. NO Satchels should be used on this map!


I agree that the Russians should NOT get artillery on this map, because of the choke points (like the Bridges) that the Germans have to go through.

I would make the rivers unpassable, or at least make them so you have to swim very slowly through them (like on Tula outskirts but without the damage). No vehicles through the rivers other than at the ford areas (top of map).


Without tanks, you don't have to worry about giving the Germans any ATR's.


That's my take on it anyway. IMHO, the teams should be VERY rifle heavy. In fact, I would go so far as to say no snipers at all and no German MG. The Germans should be assaulting and those weapons simply detract from that. Give them more SMG's to compensate plus they get a few arties (say 4 per map?) to force the Russian's heads down.

 

[[tR]Mad Mac]

If I may be so bold, ...

Thank you for your comments, I like your ideas for the second map, and will probably create something very similar (I've been toying with the secondary spawn locations, but I like yours).

I agree about making the level rifle heavy, hopefully the terrain and loadouts can encourage this (the open, cratered field between the hill/bunker and the bridge and ford should be excellent for rifles).

In regards to the river: I was definetly planning on making it impassable. The initial chokepoints should be one of the keys to victory. What I am thinking is, make the northern ford passable by infantry only (wood planks on rocks for men to cross only), and the southern bridge open to vehicles and infantry. That way, the main attack should be expected to come from the south, but the germans have the option of sending infantry to the north flank if they want to.

You are right about not having the correct vehicles, so perhaps for now I will focus on infantry only, and if new vehicles are released in the future, I can add those in.

I will start editing my terrain tonight, and keep you all posted on this map's progress.

Thanks for your input, I really want to make a map that the community will like.

 

[Rameusb5]

No Problem! Thanks for being receptive to my suggestions!


If you figure out how to put a working Russian ATG on that big hill on map 2, I'll buy you a beer! (or vodka)

 

[Heldentod]

That's my take on it anyway. IMHO, the teams should be VERY rifle heavy. In fact, I would go so far as to say no snipers at all and no German MG. The Germans should be assaulting and those weapons simply detract from that. Give them more SMG's to compensate plus they get a few arties (say 4 per map?) to force the Russian's heads down.

i disagree
the german tactic was superior firesupport for their squads and they used MG