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Not Good Enough, Steam is failing you guys

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Slotter

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Apr 15, 2006
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#1
Well I just purchased RO, well when I say I just purchased it. Valve have taken my money, but their servers are at full capacity and I can't get a connection to download it.

Whilst I appreciate that it is in no way Tripwires fault, they should be made aware that Valve are failing them.

It's been over an hour now and I still can't start my download.

Isn't it an offence in the UK to take money from your account without being able to supply the goods at that time ?

The payment shouldn't go through until the download has started.

If I am right then surely there is an offence there ? If so Valve are leaving themselves wide open for law suits.

I am so frustrated, I want to get a hold of your game and play it this long weekend, but thanks to the useless failings at Valve looks like this isn't going to happen.
 
#7
Slotter said:
Isn't it an offence in the UK to take money from your account without being able to supply the goods at that time ?

The payment shouldn't go through until the download has started.

If I am right then surely there is an offence there ? If so Valve are leaving themselves wide open for law suits.
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Being pedantic - no, it isn't an offense. Apart from that, you are actually buying the game under US law, not UK law, regardless of where you are physically. Mind you, lots of jurisdictions are trying to bring in all sorts of legislation to cover some of these things, but it is a complete nightmare.

As to the "offense" - it would only be an offense if they had promised to take the money after the download started, which they don't state. You pay the money in order to be able to download it - and as far as I am aware, they don't make any warranty about when you'll be able to download.

And, while I know these things can be frustrating - just imagine how it would be without Steam. If RO had been published at all, it would have been as a direct CoD clone, as "requested" by certain large publishers. It would be in posh boxes at a price of about
 
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#9
:)

Steam has its rough spots, absolutely. But please keep in mind how massive of a shift this is for TW as well as Valve. RO: OST is the first large game that is not Valve made. It is on a completely different engine from the rest, and does not integrate directly with Steam. Steam is more like the 'candy shell' and RO is the chocolate in the middle, if that makes sense. I didn't do the programming (or any programming for either of 'em! :p) but I imagine there was a LOT of work that went into allow RO to run while enabling VAC protection. As I understand it, RO is also the first game that uses a new file/access system which is hopefully going to allow more non-Valve developers to publish over Steam, so I'm sure kinks in the system (i.e. disturbingly long load times in some cases) will be ironed out.

On another note, I'm very glad you've now gotten your download to work, and don't mind the humble pie. We all get a slice now and then, sometimes it's just what we need, even if we didn't know it ;)
​
 
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#11
Six_Ten said:
I still do not understand why Steam was essential to getting RO to market. There is plenty of software available without Steam: for instance I went to the ZBrush website, paid my 500 bucks, and downloaded it right then. As for games, America's Army runs the same engine as RO, with arguably more content, and you can download from their servers.

Steam has caused more problems than its worth -- lucky for Valve you guys made a product worth putting up with Steam for.
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one of the reasons, as a dev has stated, the big guys demanded a COD clone. another reason was limited cash.
 
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#12
Six_Ten said:
I still do not understand why Steam was essential to getting RO to market. There is plenty of software available without Steam: for instance I went to the ZBrush website, paid my 500 bucks, and downloaded it right then. As for games, America's Army runs the same engine as RO, with arguably more content, and you can download from their servers.
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But It would probably cost Tripwire way more to get hold of servers big enough to cope with thousands of people downloading RO than they'd probably make from it.
 
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#13
I am trying NOT to rant here - but please do the bloody maths on this. Do you have ANY idea how much the US Government has spent on America's Army??? Do you know what it costs to keep big content servers online effectively? Where on earth do you think we'd get the money for all that?

Put very simply, without Valve and Steam, we'd now be owned by a major publisher and you'd have got a CoD clone for a high price...
 
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#14
MrBunsy said:
But It would probably cost Tripwire way more to get hold of servers big enough to cope with thousands of people downloading RO than they'd probably make from it.
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Ahem. They could torrent it?

Before everyone jumps on the KV-8 flame-tank and starts chasing after me, I'd like to point out that I'm sure some people far more researched it security than I could work out away to make the game freely distributible but un-playable if you've paid. And using torrents massively decreases the server load (down to almost nothing, comparitively). So, they could have done that.

I don't like Steam.
Steam bad.
Smaaash.
 
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#15
AGTMADCAT said:
Ahem. They could torrent it?

Before everyone jumps on the KV-8 flame-tank and starts chasing after me, I'd like to point out that I'm sure some people far more researched it security than I could work out away to make the game freely distributible but un-playable if you've paid. And using torrents massively decreases the server load (down to almost nothing, comparitively). So, they could have done that.

I don't like Steam.
Steam bad.
Smaaash.
Click to expand...

LOL!
 
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#16
AGTMADCAT said:
Ahem. They could torrent it?

Before everyone jumps on the KV-8 flame-tank and starts chasing after me, I'd like to point out that I'm sure some people far more researched it security than I could work out away to make the game freely distributible but un-playable if you've paid. And using torrents massively decreases the server load (down to almost nothing, comparitively). So, they could have done that.

I don't like Steam.
Steam bad.
Smaaash.
Click to expand...
That'd require writing a secure bitorrent system/ unlocking system, and lets be honest, how many people are going to trust their credit cards to a previously unheard of company? not nearly as many as to steam.
 
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#17
[RO]Wilsonam said:
Put very simply, without Valve and Steam, we'd now be owned by a major publisher and you'd have got a CoD clone for a high price...
Click to expand...

Without putting words in your mouth my assumption is... *argh* *gasp*

EA :p:D

I had no problems DL via Steam and got the DL at >240 Kbps.

Guess it all depends on where and when (did mine while all the kids were in school and about 5 days after the initial release).
 
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#18
[RO]Wilsonam said:
I am trying NOT to rant here - but please do the bloody maths on this. Do you have ANY idea how much the US Government has spent on America's Army??? Do you know what it costs to keep big content servers online effectively? Where on earth do you think we'd get the money for all that?

Put very simply, without Valve and Steam, we'd now be owned by a major publisher and you'd have got a CoD clone for a high price...
Click to expand...

QFT.

The software world is dominated by the 'big guys'. Period. Video gaming is in an ackward state (stuck between being 'just that thing for kids' and an acceptable art medium), so it is even more so dominated by the big guys. If you think a large publisher is going to let an 'untested' start up company come into their contracts with a risky 'target audience at best' game proposition, you're living in a dream world.

However, now that RO: OST has proven itself fairly well, TW may have a better time negotiating in the future. With certain publishers, that would mean loss of the intellectual property rights to Red Orchestra (read: the game becomes a name that they'll whore out just for cash). This is certainly something I don't think TW would ever want or approve of, but as I am not of TripWire Interactive, I can't speak with 100% certainty. I'll settle on a happy 99% though.

Frankly, I think that as Steam has gone on it has only gotten better, and would be deleriously happy to download any future TW products off of it, headaches and all, if it means they get to keep true to their designs, goals, and dreams.


*gives Williamson some cookies* It's ok, we heart you!
 
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